CN Grande Cache Subdivision

[Scottl]

Now that my previous layout is mostly in good hands and our move to Alberta has happened, I have turned my attention to my next layout plan.  I am fortunate that our new house has an unfinished basement with the potential for a larger layout than I had in my previous cramped space.  I am also fortunate that over the past few years I have come to understand my interests in a layout more and I am hoping that I can combine my desire for a scenically interesting layout with operations that will challenging.

So, why this prototype?  Many reasons, but my primary rationale remains modern CN-themed N scale.  I like the modern trains and locomotives and the availability of this equipment is a big plus for me.  I have a decent collection already, so keeping with this theme is important as well.

I was long thinking I would model a section of the CN Edson Sub. that operates between Edmonton and Jasper, Alberta.  This is a busy mainline with lots of varied traffic and the scenery between Hinton and Jasper on the west end is spectacular.  The challenge is that operationally, the line is almost too busy and lacks operational challenges.  There are no meaningful grades, lots of double track and the most scenic section is largely devoid of online traffic.  After some feedback from others, I realized I needed to reconsider this idea. 



As I was working through this concept, one aspect became more interesting to me.  The Grande Cache Sub. joins the Edson Sub. at Swan Landing.  I had always envisioned including this in the layout as another source of traffic.  I had come across trains on this line on occasion during hiking trips, and I was always impressed with trains coming of this line with 3-6 locomotives on the head and often helper sets.  I had never thought much about it until I dug a bit and realized that there was a reason for all of this power- often the newest and best CN had to operate and a frequent location for foreign power.  It became apparent to me that the line would make an interesting layout theme.

The Grande Cache Sub. is the current form of what started in the 1960s as the Alberta Resources Railway (ARR) that was built to tap into metallurgical coal deposits near Grande Cache in the northern Rocky Mountains.  Built in a few years in the late 1960s from Swan Landing in the south to Grande Prairie in the north, the line climbs over a summit at Hoff before descending into the Smoky River valley.  While it looks like a single summit, there are a number of climbs and descents along the way as the line crosses successive rivers flowing out of the mountains.  There are a number of large bridges, including the obscure Matson Creek viaduct that is over 500' long.

 

The line was operated by a number of companies over the years before being purchased back by CN in 2007 from Savage Alberta Railway.  Since that time, CN has served the coal and lumber industries along the line, and hosted through traffic that includes:  grain, lumber, oil and general freight.  The petroleum fracking revolution also generated new heavy frac sand traffic northbound to the exploration areas in northern Alberta and BC.  Coal mining has waned and shut in the mid-2010s, but was restarted in 2017-18, a period I am choosing to maximize the traffic mix.

The setting is the Rocky Mountain foothills and mountains.  The subdivision is single track, OCS (unsignalled, dark).  There have been helper operations in both directions for heavy trains, and in many cases trains are split to get over the summit.  I plan to focus on the southern half of the subdivision, from Winniandy (Grande Cache) at the north end to Swan Landing junction at the south end, just over 100 miles total. 

With some minor tweaks to the prototype operations, I think I have an interesting prototype that will form the basis of my next layout.

A few photos to give you a flavor of the line:

Power plant at Winniandy:  https://railpictures.net/photo/755217/

Coal mine and loader at Winniandy:  https://railpictures.net/photo/652741/

Swan Landing junction:  https://railpictures.net/photo/716461/

Berland River bridge near summit:  https://railpictures.net/photo/635179/

Typical steep climb southbound near Grey:  https://railpictures.net/photo/768734/

Near Wildhay, southern end:  https://railpictures.net/photo/754583/

[Philip H]

Ok man, you don’t get a second Best of thread just for being awesome but I predict this will rise to that level quickly.

[Scottl]

So next comes a layout design.  I've measured out the basement and need to dedicate some to non-train uses.  What I have indicated here as a layout room should be considered more of a space in the larger area- the separating walls are not necessary and this offers some opportunities to generate a more useful layout space.  The electrical box access is something that can't be changed, so I need to work around this and there are three tele-poles to consider.  The basement is walk out, which gives great access for building materials.

edit:  new version of image

[Scottl]

Some givens and druthers to frame this layout design:

CN Grande Cache Subdivision, c. 2018
Alberta Foothills and northern Rocky Mountains
Mile 0-110 (Swan Landing-Winniandy), crew-change points.

Traffic:
Online:  Porcupine coal mine (Winniandy), Milner power plant (Winniandy), Foothills Forest Products (sawmill, Grey), wood pellet plant (fictional)
Through:  Grain (southbound loads), lumber (southbound), oil/petrochemical (southbound), sand (northbound).  I will add a fictional intermodal terminal in Grande Prairie to add intermodal traffic as well.

Target specifications:

-minimum radius 16"
-grades to introduce operational challenges (helpers).  c. 2-2.5%
-minimum hidden operating trackage
-no hidden turnouts
-two decks
-if at all possible no gates or duckunders
-3' aisle clearance for operators and electrical box access
-sufficient staging for operations, visible and hidden
-max train length 11' (3 six-axle locos, about 30 cars)

Constraints:

- need to dedicate space for guest bedroom and bathroom, utilities and walk-out access.  Non-negotiable
- need to keep passage from stairs to walk-out open 
- electrical box access required, non-movable.
- 8' ceiling clearance in proposed layout area, no duct work.
- foundation walls currently framed and insulated, no electrical installed, basic lighting fixtures.
- concrete foundation

I'm pleased with how much space I have to work with here and the lack of physical constraints.  As someone who  is tall, the 8' ceiling is a dream come true!

[Cajonpassfan]

A very cool prototype Scott, no pun intended
What kind of minimum radius are you contemplating for that modern power? Both operationally and aesthetically? Could be two different numbers (open and hidden). And what kind of grade? Would you consider a double deck? Train length? Staging to staging? A continuous lap to accommodate those coal trains (loads/empties)? How big is the electrical box and how high?
Inquiring minds want to know....
Otto

[Cajonpassfan]

Lol, never mind...I asked my questions as you answered most of them...
Where is the walkout?

[Scottl]

Otto,  I'm envisioning a point-to-point right now, but open to continuous run too. 

That image is strange, not sure why the black background is there.  The walk out patio doors are at the bottom right next to the area marked as sitting area.

[Philip H]

So why put the bathroom on the other side of the stairs?

[Cajonpassfan]

Otto,  I'm envisioning a point-to-point right now, but open to continuous run too. 

That image is strange, not sure why the black background is there.  The walk out patio doors are at the bottom right next to the area marked as sitting area.

And the electrical box questions? Can a narrow deck be above it?

[Missaberoad]

Welcome to Alberta!

Good choice in prototype, CN has some really cool secondary lines around here, should make an interesting layout.

I keep meaning to explore that part of the province more, lots of good 4x4ing and hiking out that way.

Just need some Scaletrains C39-8s for a SAR throwback!

[pdx1955]

So why put the bathroom on the other side of the stairs?

To add to this, it may be more functional  to have the bedroom  across from the  bathroom, so it encompasses the electrical box limitation. This also allows use of the long wall outside of the walkout and puts the sitting area " crew lounge" in the old bedroom location.

[Scottl]

Thanks all.  Quick answers to the questions:

-Electrical panel is about 3' wide with all the other stuff there and located almost precisely at the level I would want a lower and upper deck level.  I have a plan to work around it and give good access.

-Bathroom:  the rough-in for the plumbing is up there so it makes sense.  The bedroom is placed where it is due to two large windows in that part of the basement.  Utility room is where the furnace, HW and vacuum are (and ain't going to move easily due to ducting).  The Crew Lounge (sitting area) is most logical near the patio doors to me- there is a deck outside and that space will have some foot traffic.

I have an initial layout plan that works very well in the space I have, just need to clean up some bits.

@Missaberoad - it's great to be back!  We are in the Calgary area so explorations are more focused on Kananaskis and the Ghost River areas, but I'll get up to the Grande Cache area soon.  Still lots of snow in the bush up there.

[Scottl]

Here is a draft of what I am thinking.  I've been throwing ideas around with @mark dance, @GaryHinshaw and @grant-sar for a month or so and still have some things to develop or contemplate.

This layout offers a long point-to-point mainline run (150' visible + 2 yards @18' + 40' helix), three sidings for meets and helpers, two online industries and 1-2 industries at Winniandy (depending how I treat the power plant).  Space is generous for trains and the yards, and I think could offer a decent operation session.  Lots of opportunities for nice scenery too with a few cool bridges and mountain vistas.

A few things to help you interpret this:

-grid is 12", foundation walls shown, assume there is generous walking space in the "hallway" along the bottom side, and the sitting area/ crew lounge on the right side.  Outside deck for BBQ or lounging in good weather.

-there are two levels here but I have depicted it with the basic elements that are repeated on both levels.  Blue text indicates locations on the lower level and black text the upper level.  The noted bridges are substantial structures that will be highlights. The deeper valleys on the north side of the summit indicate to me they are best on the lower level.

-there is a single helix that represents the summit.  Because this route climbs up and back again to essentially the same elevation, this approach works well but has a prime limitation that both yards end up at the same location.  However, there is a lot of space dedicated to them (about 20' each) so I hope this won't be too problematic.

-no benchwork edge is shown, but the 3' aisle scale bars show that a reasonable space is present in most spots, maybe a bit pinched near the helix.

-the reverse loop storage idea here is hidden and works well dimensionally with the helix and can be done without hidden turnouts.  This could have 2 or 3 tracks compared to the one I have shown and much of it could be exposed for access and visibility.  I like how Grant Eastman has done this on his SAR layout with a black painted treatment.

-I am contemplating how to build in a hidden mainline Edson Sub. loop that would act as further staging and operation potential on the upper level.  This might be a loop that is minimally hidden below the upper level, following a similar path as the reverse loop staging.  This is still be to be sorted out but in principle fits.  It would be great to skew up  the operations with mainline traffic and train work at Swan Landing, something that causes congestion for the prototype.

-Mark suggested curtains as a good method to easily hide the layout as needed.  I like this idea a lot.

[CRL]

It looks like your “layout” area is going to be open, with no walls between the hall and the sitting area. Is that correct or am I mistaken?

[Scottl]

Yes, that is correct.   I think I can swing it with the space committee.