BLI Light and Heavy Southern Pacific Pacifics...WTF?!!

[prr7161]

Mostly seems like above the cylinders. Mikado's had 3 steps going up from the pilot and Pacific's had 4 steps. The platform over the cylinders was higher. I dunno thought Charlie said this was why Kato didn't use their Heavy Mike to make a Pacific. Maybe it is railroad specific.

Definitely railroad-specific, and likely time based as well.  Just Googling a few photos turns up both Mikes and Pacifics with 3 and 4 steps, depending on the appliances the individual railroads were adding over time.

[learmoia]

... one of Conrail's predecessor roads (the C&O) ....

John C.

                 

The the thought just crossed my mind to paint a PRR T-1 in Penn Central.......

As far as a foobie SP Locomotive... If it helps pay for the next new tooling.. I'm not going to argue..

What grinds my gears is foobie paint schemes on what would be accurate body style/railroad combinations... ignoring the prototypical scheme.

~Ian

[ncbqguy]

While I was at Kato there was no thought of a USRA Heavy Pacific.  Kato USA staff might have been able to sell a new engine but the only way we could get repair parts produced for the USRA Heavy Mikado (detail part sets, tender trucks especially) was a second run. 
The USRA Pacifics were slim on originals and copies.  You can Google for rosters.  No “major” roads had any.  Atlas / Rivarossi tooled correct shells for the Light Pacific and Mikado but when the Heavies by Con-Cor were released one shell sufficed.  BLI probably won’t sell any fewer 4-6-2s because the running boards and sand dome are wrong on the Light and the Heavy has wrong running boards...maybe they’re prototype for the Christmas carol version....
Hopefully 3D Wizards will figure out road-specific shells for these good mechanisms..like CB&Q O1a Mikes and S2 Pacifics!!
Charlie Vlk

[SkipGear]

I'm still baffled that people don't understand the logistics of creating and selling a locomotive.

As a company, trying to make money, are you going to build a non descript completely road specific loco that is only accurate for one, maybe two roads? You might sell that loco to at best 100 fans of that road, which means small production runs and a $500-700 price tag.

....Or are you going to build something that may not be perfect for every, or even any one road, but it is very close to a dozen or more different roads. Because this loco is close enough for over a dozen different roads, you have now opened up your sales to 10-20 times more customers, allowing your production run to be 20 times larger, bringing costs down and your profits up. At the same time you have made more people happy, at the risk of offending some of those original 100 people that would have bought it because it was perfect for their road. I bet out of those hundred, 50 -75 of them will still buy it in their road, even though it isn't perfect.

Some people will point out the existing one road releases that are out there....those are iconic, unusual, and often large locos that transcend road loyalty just because they are unique examples of the breed. The Big Boy, Challenger, EM1, T1, K4, GS4 and FEF are all perfect examples of loco's that have a heritage above and beyond the primary followers of their respective roads. In some cases they were brought about to go with a specific train that helped propel their sales, some are just well, larger than life. A pacific than ran the local every day is never going to get the attention or notoriety to garner a run all to itself so be prepared to live with a stand in or pay brass plus prices to get it.

Also, comparing this to a Model Power Pacific is just unrealistic. The Model Power loco design is going on 25 years old, is one of the hardest loco's to kit-bash, has no free standing grabs, very little detail whatsoever. They are very good running loco's when right, once you have a problem with one, you might as well throw it away, the driver centers are very soft and any hint of shorted driver will melt them in a heartbeat. I'm using a Modelpower chassis for a scratch build, only because the only other option at the time was a Rivarossi Pacific that may 10 years down the road develop Zinc Pest and render my work mute.  The only thing of the Model power that is getting used is the chassis and drivers. Everything else has to be created or sourced from another loco. Hopefully the Broadway's are a little more friendly for the kit-bashers out there.

[peteski]

I'm still baffled that people don't understand the logistics of creating and selling a locomotive.

As a company, trying to make money, are you going to build a non descript completely road specific loco that is only accurate for one, maybe two roads? You might sell that loco to at best 100 fans of that road, which means small production runs and a $500-700 price tag.

....Or are you going to build something that may not be perfect for every, or even any one road, but it is very close to a dozen or more different roads. Because this loco is close enough for over a dozen different roads, you have now opened up your sales to 10-20 times more customers, allowing your production run to be 20 times larger, bringing costs down and your profits up. At the same time you have made more people happy, at the risk of offending some of those original 100 people that would have bought it because it was perfect for their road. I bet out of those hundred, 50 -75 of them will still buy it in their road, even though it isn't perfect.

Well Tony, modelers have gotten lazier in the last few decades or so.  Many want RTR models with the exact details for their railroad.  Then there are new model companies, such as Scale Trains, that seem to cater to that type of a modeler, but offering models which have roadname-specific details.  Unfortunately for the foamers, those models are only Diesel locos (at least so far). That proverbial paradigm is shifting. We are getting spoiled.

[CBQ Fan]

Well Tony, modelers have gotten lazier in the last few decades or so.  Many want RTR models with the exact details for their railroad.  Then there are new model companies, such as Scale Trains, that seem to cater to that type of a modeler, but offering models which have roadname-specific details.  Unfortunately for the foamers, those models are only Diesel locos (at least so far). That proverbial paradigm is shifting. We are getting spoiled.

Is it lazier or is it a matter of time?  I am not lazy, but I have a large layout and limited amount of time. Wife, kids, work I am sure I am not the only one. I used to build tank and plane models when I was young and do dioramas with extreme detailing and weathering. I would love to have the time to custom build all of my track and hyper detail my layout.  At the rate it would take me to finish it to that level of detail would be a lifetime. I also know the expense of a lot of the tools and supplies needed  may be a challenge to modeling. I think back to all the tools I had to buy along the way that my dad had readily available when I lived with my parents and then just across town!  Moving several states away had some sticker shock!  Lol.

[Angus Shops]

I have to agree with Peteski to a point. In relation to this discussion I was thinking back to what might have appeared in the “trackside photos” and construction articles in old Model Railroader magazines. I recall that most issues included photos of someone’s scratch built brass steamer, and at least 2 drawings of prototype rolling stock, locomotives or structures. If a modeller really wanted a specific prototype loco, they could invest in brass. On the other hand many modellers of the day, such as my dad, were happy to run whatever they could afford from the hobby shop on their ‘spaghetti bowl’ layouts. Van Hobbies, our local hobby shop, was also the importer of huge variety of CPR and CNR brass, but Dad was not wealthy enough for this.

On the other other hand, a CPR Royal Hudson or even a ‘standard’ Hudson are both “famous excursion engines”; where’s my n scale version?
Geoff

[peteski]

I guess  "lazy" might not be the most accurate description.  Yes ,plenty of N scalers still enjoy kitbashing and detailing their models, especially that when compared to H0, we still have more limited selection of models.  And sure, some modelers have enough disposable income (and limited hobby time) to spend the extra money on "rivet-counter" type of model which has extra details and roadname specific details installed at the factory.    I also see the trend of more and more modelers requesting, or even expecting, those types of models to be produced.  And some companies seem to be catering to those modelers, while others produce more generic or less detailed models.  The good news is that we now have a wider selection of N scale models than ever before, even if most are made as limited runs (which is another subject for many lively discussions).

[JMaurer1]

IM cab forward, Fox Valley Milwaukee Road 4-4-2, Kato GS-4, FEF-3 and didn't they also make a USRA Mikado? It IS possible to make correct steam locomotives in N scale and still make a profit.

What about my previous suggesting of making a mech and digital printing the correct shells/cylinders/tenders?

[Specter3]

@Angus Shops I thought Rapido was doing that loco? Now, it might cost an arm and a leg, but based on their prior products, it will be right. How it runs is another story(first GMD1) but they made those right and their recent diesels seem to be good runners.(Draper taper)

[SkipGear]

IM cab forward, Fox Valley Milwaukee Road 4-4-2, Kato GS-4, FEF-3 and didn't they also make a USRA Mikado? It IS possible to make correct steam locomotives in N scale and still make a profit.

What about my previous suggesting of making a mech and digital printing the correct shells/cylinders/tenders?

IM Cab forward - Iconic loco, large loco, and the mechanism was good for a few variations.
Fox Valley 4-4-2 - Was released with a set of passenger cars. One supported the other. Without the cars, no reason to buy the engine and vise versa.
Kato GS-4 - See above for Fox Valley, + Iconic paint scheme.
Kato FEF - Once again see above. + a loco that is still on the rails, more icon power.
Kato USRA Heavies Mikado - Accurate for CNJ, CB&Q, Milwaukee, EJE, Erie, GN, L&N, PLE, WLE. Over half of those are based out of or interacted with Chicago, Kato USA's home base. Others were close enoughs. The only reason there was a second run was because they needed to make parts to fix the first run. 3rd Run came 5-10 years later and only in 2 paint schemes, knowing that most people were using them for kit bashes.

Digital printing is not quite good enough for a manufacture to base it's production on it. Even the best printers take 2-3 hours to print a loco shell. In that time, an injection molding machine can run an entire production run of parts with a maybe 5% reject rate, 3d printing is still in the 25-50% reject area.

[SkipGear]

My dealer e-mail from Broadway today.....

The P3 USRA Pacifics, N-Scale is 90% sold, with these SKU's Sold Out:

6225, 6226, 6227; 6228, 6229, 6231, 6232,6233

Looks like they knew what they were doing.

[Angus Shops]

@Angus Shops I thought Rapido was doing that loco? Now, it might cost an arm and a leg, but based on their prior products, it will be right. How it runs is another story(first GMD1) but they made those right and their recent diesels seem to be good runners.(Draper taper)

Alas, Rapido is doing (has done) the Royal Hudson in HO, with no plans for N scale.

[wes_sutton]

I could easily see Concor or Bachmann making up paint schemes, but if I'm paying $350 for an engine, I just expect more than a fantasy. After checking my files, even the Christmas loco is painted wrong

So you've already paid for one? Well that was a bit dumb

[Bill H]

In my case, the B&O did have USRA light Pacifics (P5) and also made close clones with Vandy tenders (P6).  In addition, they had a series of home-built heavy Pacifics (P1d) that have similar driver size and spacing to the USRA models (74" diameter and 13' between end axles).  So, I am happy to see BLI make these.

My pet peeve is the headlights centered on the smoke box doors of so many models.  The B&O received locos like that, but quickly remounted the headlights on the top of the smoke box front. When Bachmann came out with the K4 and high-mounted headlight, I was hoping that they would make a B&O version with a high headlight.  But, the K4 had 80" diameter drivers, like the B&O class P7 "President Class" locomotives, and some of those had low-mounted headlights (the P7d and P7e). 

Do the manufacturers really just love to tease us B&O modelers?  Probably not, but sometimes it seems like it.

Have to completely agree, with the exception of those fabulous EM-1s and the LL 0-8-0, it has been very slim pickens for B&O steam modelers seeking road specific details - or even close. For BLI to consider these B&O offerings as "road specific", well, that is a serious stretch.
Kind regards,
Bill