HOGTRAINZ Intermountain Update

[learmoia]

Rail Smith, while not a major player yet has made notable progress and I would argue have had more success with it than Walthers!

Both Railsmith and Atlas have had huge success with thier Walthers tooling..... because they are using it to produce new products..

[Ike the BN Freak]

IM didn’t recover fully from the factory shutdown and struggled ever sense.

IM was pushing release dates back long before the factory closure. I feel they used the closure to their advantage to push stuff out even more. I think it was at the NTS 2018, the one in KC, I was talking to Ron, believe that was his name, the president of IM, and he was saying they were finalizing talks with 3 or 4 factories in China to make the models for them. So if they had gotten 3 or 4 new factories online and going, you'd think they would be able to push out product.

[Ike the BN Freak]

Both Railsmith and Atlas have had huge success with thier Walthers tooling..... because they are using it to produce new products..

I've also heard that the tooling was at a different factory than the one that shut down in 2018, so the molds weren't effected, which allowed both to push out product

[martin station]

  I remember ordering the IM GP10s in HO scale. I was just getting into N scale at the time but I grew up with these and always wanted one so I ordered one anyway. It took a little over four years it get my GP10 (and it's a great model). When they announced these in N scale I didn't even bother to order any because that's way too long to to wait and too many things can change. I did order the SD38-2 but gave up on that after two years.
  I'm not sure but is IM like Bowser as they keep their dies here in the US and then send them to China for assembly? I have heard that if companies do this they kind of get their products pushed to the back of the line as for as production as the companies that produce the products would rather have the total production and not just assembly.

[Rossford Yard]

IM was pushing release dates back long before the factory closure. I feel they used the closure to their advantage to push stuff out even more. I think it was at the NTS 2018, the one in KC, I was talking to Ron, believe that was his name, the president of IM, and he was saying they were finalizing talks with 3 or 4 factories in China to make the models for them. So if they had gotten 3 or 4 new factories online and going, you'd think they would be able to push out product.

That's just crazy talk!  I can see they might decide to reduce their presence, get out of N Scale, or get out completely, but I don't see them "pushing stuff back" either to piss off customers, or reduce product sales in general.  How on this green earth would any of that be to their advantage?

I talked to Ron in KC as well, but believe they were talking to 3-4 mfgs, but didn't get where they wanted to be.  Have heard subsequently that since the demise of the former large Chinese producer of most N scale, that the new factories have different payment terms now.  I've done some business in China. Most Chinese businesses are pretty hard nose, and where the former factory was pretty liberal with long term customers, allowing credit, post production payments, etc., not all the new ones are.

Now some of the current suppliers sometimes require substantial or full pre-payment before production.  Some of our suppliers who couldn't afford that had to scale back projects, while bigger companies like Atlas were probably in a better position to negotiate reasonably favorable terms, which are essential, I would guess, to profitable model railroad manufacturing and supply.

Short version, while I agree it's frustrating because IM's delivery standards are below what we have come to generally expect, I figure if we look hard enough, we can find the reason.  And, it would be great if IM (and similarly affected) were more transparent, but in reality, if the above is at at all true, they probably don't want to publicly state that they are having financial troubles, at least if they do, in fact, intend to stay in the MR biz.

Shorter version yet.....it is what it is, and probably what it must be!

[Ike the BN Freak]

That's just crazy talk!  I can see they might decide to reduce their presence, get out of N Scale, or get out completely, but I don't see them "pushing stuff back" either to piss off customers, or reduce product sales in general.  How on this green earth would any of that be to their advantage?

I talked to Ron in KC as well, but believe they were talking to 3-4 mfgs, but didn't get where they wanted to be.

However they were pushing out release dates before the closure. Its nothing new for IM.

From what I remember of the conversation, he stated they were ready to ink deals with 3-4 mfgs. As for the new ones not doing credit and wanting cash up front, I can see that slowing down some releases if they don't have the capital up front to fund projects.

[Rossford Yard]

Yes, IM has always been infamous for delays, and I get the frustrations.  It seems like they think the volume of products on their production pages makes them look more interesting, or something.  I don't want to hazard a guess on that.  And, we just want results in the end, and that's what they get judged for.

As to where they were in KC regarding signing deals, I can't know, but recall the same discussion with Ron.  Again, I figured from the vagueness of it that it was a bunch of happy talk, and they weren't going to really divulge what the situation is.  But, again, I don't know.

And lastly, just guessing again, but it would just seem that for whatever reasons they have, they are just much more conservative than some other companies on pulling the trigger.  My guess is they are probably more risk averse than others, and that may be because they sell less volume than Atlas (for example) or maybe just it's their personality or very real reaction to some other financial concerns.

And, since I can't know, I guess I just take them for what they are worth.  Sort of like all the griping about Walther's, who I admire for all their structures that have helped me build several urban style layouts, I admire IM for their general openness about sales figures, and their willingness to bring odd ball models, a la Tunnel Motors, and perhaps the GP-10, etc., to market. 

So, I just take them for what they are.  And lastly, as a model railroader for 63 years, every time I run the layout, it reminds me of what I have, and how not having their GP-10's or modern cement hoppers really hasn't diminished my enjoyment, even though, nominally, I would like to have both.  I find that for all the extra locos and cars I do have, I still tend to go in and run what I was running the last session, believing running trains is a better use of my time than swapping out a bunch of rolling stock just to see something different and running trains 5-10 minutes less that night, LOL.

[CBQ Fan]

The question I have is what percentage of HO products did they produce compared to announce?  Did their marketing approach get based on copying their HO offerings and then whatever got enough preorders and fit into their production schedule got made?  It always seemed that they did no real research in N scale demand, just scaled down their HO offerings.

[basementcalling]

I'll buy from them when the product is of a price and quality I deem acceptable, but I do not pre order their stuff from any hobby shop. Seems to me it's harder to find hobby shops that will offer pre orders. I never had an issue with BLW messing up a pre order in 25 years of using them.

[Angus Shops]

I’m lucky enough to have a local hobby shop that still orders product for in-store shelf display. They seem to concentrate on products suitable for the local market, but I was still surprised to see a new supply of Intermountain 40’ box cars in CP and CN paint schemes and I bought a couple. As long as the store continues this policy I’ll by Intermountain products when they appear on the shelf, but I won’t preorder anything. I haven’t checked Intermountain’s website for years because it’s basically meaningless.

[signalmaintainer]

There's nothing yet on the IRMC that verifies a single word of HogTrainz's claim. I'm no fan of IMRC products or their business model, but shouldn't we wait for IMRC to have their say in this?

[learmoia]

There's nothing yet on the IRMC that verifies a single word of HogTrainz's claim. I'm no fan of IMRC products or their business model, but shouldn't we wait for IMRC to have their say in this?

I think we all want to hear IMRC's side of this story... but that doesn't make the facts that led to HogTrain's business decision inaccurate.

Open reservations for 5+ years?.. Yes
The Hassle of tracking down payment for those pre-orders fro. 5 years ago?.. makes sense..
Price increases over 5 years that removes profit margin on products?..

This is a double edge sword of a business decisions on both sides... if it takes you 5 years to get a product to market, you'd expect a price increase over time..

If IMRC isn't going to eat the cost increase of thier failure to bring a product to market in a timely fashion, HogTrains has to:
A: Eat the cost to keep customers happy.
B: Pass on the cost to the customers and potentially piss them off.
.. I would have passed on the cost to the customer....
.... But I would strongly consider thier approach to stop pre orders..

But really they are going to stop customer pre orders... they are not going to stop ordering... They will put their orders in base on what they think will move.. if the product shows up.. put it on the website for today's price. if not.. then fine.

~Ian

[Lenny53]

I should imagine this would affect Centralia Car Shops as well; the last product of theirs that I recall was a run of cabooses.

They did the superdome not that long ago.

[JMaurer1]

I think that IM has already let us know what their side of the story is: they're going to list different road names that they are thinking about doing and if there is enough pre-orders, they may or may not actually do them...eventually. But, hey, if they want to chime in, I'm more than happy to listen.

Once again, say what you will do and then do what you say. Simple...

[sp org div]

So is it that preorders are not up to their expectations to produce models in N scale, but are sufficient to do them in HO?
If this is why N product is taking so long to actually be produced, I currently view low preorder response as self inflicted.
Why?
Im not sticking my pusher with sub par preordered product.
Thats not fair to them if I preorder and later find the product is below realistic quality standards (and cancel) after it arrives. Therefore just any manuf announcing (say a new loco), and stating they need more preorders would be ridiculous here. Now with a manuf who has a good reputation I typically will preorder. To resolve the current dilemma for me would require decent pre production samples with good photos, including the chassis, followed by further consistent quality product. We all know it can be done.