Author Topic: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh  (Read 1874 times)

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Lemosteam

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Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« on: February 10, 2021, 03:36:56 PM »
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Some time ago I purchased two of the etches below. I ave a large marsh’s planned and some ROW drainage that I want nice cattails in. @DKS suggested these on another thread and I bought them. The etches are beautiful, but the instructions are horrid.



I definitely think I will sandblast them. I do not have luck with paint sticking to brass, and I think they get teased into shape so I am not sure wher to start.

This is my initial plan:
Sandblast
Bend into shape on fret
Assemble on fret (it seems that some parts are the plant and others the added foliage, but I am not sure)
Paint with Tan color first.
Airbrush various olive shades onto the plants randomly
Dry brush edges, tips with white or tan
Seal the with dullcote

Set aside for installation.

The swamp area will be carved lightly then pained with dark shades of murky green and brown mixed in, maybe some light tan for a small sandy area.

My next concern, is should I use matte medium first and then plant them or should I plant them and tease the matte medium around them.

Much later I plan on adding some tall static grass all around them.

Been struggling with this for a while now.  Here is where the marsh will be, to the right of the siding, along the edge up to the track



« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 04:29:52 PM by Lemosteam »

Philip H

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Re: Advice on prepping, panting and installing my marsh
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2021, 03:38:52 PM »
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I'm not sure how you "pant" brass etchings but I have ideas . . .

Otherwise I think your approach is sound.
Philip H.
Chief Everything Officer
Baton Rouge Southern RR - Mount Rainier Division.


sirenwerks

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2021, 09:02:07 PM »
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I am making a presumption here and guessing you're modeling the Pennsy, and a somewhat Mid Atlantic locale?  Depending on that you could be modeling a swamp marsh or a tidal marsh.  For instance, the NEC is built through swampland in southern Maryland but in the industrial areas of Philly, it contends with tidal marsh.  Most of the NEC around Odenton to DC was meadow, scrub, and low water marsh, like wooded bogs.  It looks like your layout is not going to offer any woodland transition, just scrub and bog - I don't see much room for much in the way of trees with that retaining wall.


I think one of the Danneman's did a nice article on modeling a smap, but it was more of a river tidal variety, not bog or shoreline. I think he used fake fur, and it appeared in MR and probably got regurgitated into later Kalmbach books on scenery.  Biologists and the internet are your friend in this case, on how to develop the plant transition, depending on where your prototype is.  One of the Modutrak boys did a nice job on modeling pond scum and a drainage basin, which is worth taking a look at too. 
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

Lemosteam

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 09:22:11 PM »
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I am making a presumption here and guessing you're modeling the Pennsy, and a somewhat Mid Atlantic locale?  Depending on that you could be modeling a swamp marsh or a tidal marsh.  For instance, the NEC is built through swampland in southern Maryland but in the industrial areas of Philly, it contends with tidal marsh.  Most of the NEC around Odenton to DC was meadow, scrub, and low water marsh, like wooded bogs.  It looks like your layout is not going to offer any woodland transition, just scrub and bog - I don't see much room for much in the way of trees with that retaining wall.


I think one of the Danneman's did a nice article on modeling a smap, but it was more of a river tidal variety, not bog or shoreline. I think he used fake fur, and it appeared in MR and probably got regurgitated into later Kalmbach books on scenery.  Biologists and the internet are your friend in this case, on how to develop the plant transition, depending on where your prototype is.  One of the Modutrak boys did a nice job on modeling pond scum and a drainage basin, which is worth taking a look at too.

@sirenwerks , Long Island, but this section is a lift out made to extend my layout and serve as an outdoor photo diorama so other than the berm wall, it could be anywhere coastline, river edge, lakeshore, etc

wazzou

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 09:55:09 PM »
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Rob Carey had an article in N Scale Railroading describing the construction techniques for a swamp he modeled on his DRGW layout.
Bryan

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sirenwerks

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2021, 01:18:15 AM »
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Rob Carey had an article in N Scale Railroading describing the construction techniques for a swamp he modeled on his DRGW layout.


My bad, I saw DRGW and immediately thought Danneman. I should have listened to my doubt when I scoured Mike's website and couldn't find  any place on his layout where a swamp fit.  I just chalked it up to my recent lapse in sanity...
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

Simon D.

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2021, 10:55:06 AM »
+2
I read somewhere that you can prep brass by soaking in white vinegar for a couple of hours, then wash off - presumably with alcohol to speed things up (?)

SAH

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 04:24:07 PM »
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Rob Carey had an article in N Scale Railroading describing the construction techniques for a swamp he modeled on his DRGW layout.

Nov/Dec 2006.  Funny, I saved that article and just reread it a couple of days ago while prepping to scratch my scenery itch.  Good simple techniques.
Steve Holzheimer
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Modeling the AC&Y Spur 4 Serving the Tire Industry

basementcalling

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 06:05:33 PM »
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I read somewhere that you can prep brass by soaking in white vinegar for a couple of hours, then wash off - presumably with alcohol to speed things up (?)

This might be better than sandblasting or using an air eraser to etch the brass, but I agree some type of surface prep will be needed.

You might think about how to coat the different plants with adhesive to allow flocking or other traditional scenery materials to stick, as texture is an important and overlooked part of plants. Very few are as smooth in real life as brass, and even if realistically painted, the smoothness may detract from the realism.
Peter Pfotenhauer

Lemosteam

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 06:13:49 PM »
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This might be better than sandblasting or using an air eraser to etch the brass, but I agree some type of surface prep will be needed.

You might think about how to coat the different plants with adhesive to allow flocking or other traditional scenery materials to stick, as texture is an important and overlooked part of plants. Very few are as smooth in real life as brass, and even if realistically painted, the smoothness may detract from the realism.

Right, that was  partially the reason for the sandblasting, texture. You point is really well taken though. Not sure if there’s anything that fine.

Thanks to all so far!

Still looking for thoughts on the matte medium, I.e. before of after planting.  Just want the mash you look wet and muddy at the base. Maybe mix in some fine ground brown spice of some kind.

wazzou

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 07:07:01 PM »
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I'd attempt to do it and plant while not set-up yet.
Bryan

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Philip H

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 10:51:32 PM »
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I'd attempt to do it and plant while not set-up yet.

Agreed. You will have a devil of a time nestling the Matte medium around the plants. It doesn’t flow like resin or epoxy.
Philip H.
Chief Everything Officer
Baton Rouge Southern RR - Mount Rainier Division.


fire5506

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 11:03:10 PM »
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  I don't know how thin they are, but be very careful sandblasting sheet metal. If you do use as little air pressure as possible. I would make sure that it is very clean, no oils, finger prints or anything else, then put it vinegar for about 20 minutes, rinse well to remove the vinegar then prime and paint. The vinegar etches it a little and gives it some tooth for the paint to adhere to.
  I have used bead blasters and warped sheet steel with it and brass is a lot softer. If you do want to use an air eraser use one of the end pieces to experiment with before doing the parts you want to use. It may be possible to put a curl in the leaves with the eraser.

 Richard Webster
Richard looking at MP 242 when working for the FEC Rwy. Retired now.

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Lemosteam

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 07:00:01 AM »
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  I don't know how thin they are, but be very careful sandblasting sheet metal. If you do use as little air pressure as possible. I would make sure that it is very clean, no oils, finger prints or anything else, then put it vinegar for about 20 minutes, rinse well to remove the vinegar then prime and paint. The vinegar etches it a little and gives it some tooth for the paint to adhere to.
  I have used bead blasters and warped sheet steel with it and brass is a lot softer. If you do want to use an air eraser use one of the end pieces to experiment with before doing the parts you want to use. It may be possible to put a curl in the leaves with the eraser.

 Richard Webster

Yes, I was referring to an air eraser. I have used it on brass etched models with no issues. I move the nozzle around quickly and never hang in one spot.

Curls in the leaves might be beneficial!

basementcalling

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Re: Advice on prepping, painting and installing my marsh
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2021, 07:51:20 AM »
+1
Right, that was  partially the reason for the sandblasting, texture. You point is really well taken though. Not sure if there’s anything that fine.

Thanks to all so far!

Still looking for thoughts on the matte medium, I.e. before of after planting.  Just want the mash you look wet and muddy at the base. Maybe mix in some fine ground brown spice of some kind.

I meant to say soak the etchings in vinegar or lemon juice instead of using the air eraser.
Peter Pfotenhauer