Thinking of Reserving an N Scale ST C44-9W

[sundowner]

The ST blend well with the Kato GE’s, mush better than other manufactures GE’s in my personal opinion.
The biggest thing I notice is the cab windows are pretty close match while others manufactures look off.
Also the ST’s seem to retain and sometimes exceed there resale value from recent experience.

[Steveruger45]

Russ, as others have said, just get one.  I love mine.  I have Kato units too.  I dont mind the difference in the details. But if this would be a problem for you just get the operator series one and put your own speaker and plug and play lok5 decoder in it. 

[turbowhiz]

Well, I’ll chime in here since I’ve for personal interest spend a fair bit of time comparing my recent run Kato ES-44AC with the ST ET-44AC.

Being entirely new the scale (but not at all to the hobby) I picked in my first N scale purchase of my new endeavor a Kato ES-44AC of the most recent run (in CN). It’s a great model… Runs fantastic, and looks definitely decent.

When the ET-44’s showed up, I also bought one of those and compared them fairly closely…

The ST details with the separate grabs and etched grills and all are very nice; They are really nice models to be sure.

The build quality however is not perfect… Subtle glue stains… A very faint glue fingerprint under the paint… Subtle misalignment of details like the rear handrails not being just so…  the oh so nice grills not quite fitting flat. So, if your super detail focused you might be doing some rework… I find that it’s a real exception with any Chinese model that there isn’t something that needs rework, and these are no exception.

The Kato on the other hand is manufactured “perfectly” so to speak, at least to the standard that it is. No glue stains. (case being there is no glue). All the handrails are straight. No details out of place (albeit with few TO be out of place in the first place). However, the paint itself in details is poorer… Especially around certain subtle detail sections like say the sand fillers on the nose.

Now I tried to figure out exactly why the ST looked a fair bit better than the Kato, because it really does build quality details aside. And really it came down to a couple of things I’d say: Firstly, the scale trains unit has separate grabs that are nicely sized, along with details such as sunshades. And secondly, and I’d say the bigger difference is the detail in painting, most critically the grillwork is painted. So, all of the grills, including say the vents under the cab have a slight grey highlight to them. Alongside that, details like the fuel level indicator and alike are also painted. Those same details are there on the kato model, but unpainted.

So if you’re detailing your Kato’s with separate grabs etc, and weathering your models or otherwise detail painting them, I’d say they’d just fine together. The only thing I done so far to my ES-44 was to paint the handrails, and what a difference that one minor thing did to make the model look 100% better next to the ST units.

Mechanically the ST units were a little rough out of the box, but they really do well to be run in a bit, since all of my examples have really run better with a bit of time. One example was pretty rough out of the box with the flywheel very so slightly rubbing the shell… I realigned the motor and sorted that out (yeah rework, par for the course). Now I’d say they run comparatively very similarly to the Kato… Although the ESU electronics does wonders.

I’m really disappointed with the sound quality on my factory equipped sound unit… Seems like I’m not alone in that assessment based on some other posts on this board. I’m going to try and rework the speaker setup, and invest in a lok-programmer since both the speaker and the sound project itself are at fault (i.e. the bell sound is cutting off ever so slightly out of time…) . Compared to my Rapido Dash-8 the factory sound quality between these models is night and day, and the decoder is identical. Needless to say, I only bought one example with factory sound, and the others I’ll do myself.

All this said, I’ve bought only one Kato ES-44… And I now have 3 ST ET-44’s.

[ryan_wilkerson]

I've intended on doing this comparison for a while but just now read this thread and took the comparison photos.
1) Kato (original release) stock.
2) Kato (revised version with porch mounted ditch lights and color match trucks...likely other improvements too) stock
3) Kato (revised version with porch mounted ditch lights) custom painted and detailed by Jeff V.
4) Scale Trains rivet counter with DCC sound.
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[peteski]

The [ST] build quality however is not perfect… Subtle glue stains… A very faint glue fingerprint under the paint… Subtle misalignment of details like the rear handrails not being just so…  the oh so nice grills not quite fitting flat. So, if your super detail focused you might be doing some rework… I find that it’s a real exception with any Chinese model that there isn’t something that needs rework, and these are no exception.

The Kato on the other hand is manufactured “perfectly” so to speak, at least to the standard that it is. No glue stains. (case being there is no glue). All the handrails are straight. No details out of place (albeit with few TO be out of place in the first place). However, the paint itself in details is poorer… Especially around certain subtle detail sections like say the sand fillers on the nose.

You know, this is my sentiment exactly.  Those super-detailed models (not just ST) all suffer from what you so aptly described.  The assembly is just not pristine. Well, that is understandable as all those  details are applied by a worker on an assembly line (not a modeler spending hours fastidiously applying details to their precious model).  So, the bottom line is what someone prefers: oodles of details applied at the factory, but with some "warts", or a super-clean model assembled with no glue, with much less detail.  I also still think that mechanically Kato is superior to any other N scale model out there.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks for all the replies and for the photo comparison! Much appreciated and I can see from the photos that the Kato and ST units will indeed look pretty good together.

I'm still not entirely clear on if the details are already installed or in a baggie for the modeler to install (I thought I've seen info or videos where they're in a baggie).

Like I said earlier, and for the reasons peteski mentioned, I would actually prefer to add them myself.

[ryan_wilkerson]

The SP 8200 in my photos had all details installed by Scale Trains. I haven't modified it at all.
I seem to remember the Operator series might have the details delivered in a bag for modeller addition.

EDIT: "Suppled [sic] with modeler installed MU hoses, air hoses and coupler bars"
from: https://www.scaletrains.com/product/operator-n-scale-ge-dash-9-44cw-southern-pacific-speed-lettering/

Thanks for all the replies and for the photo comparison! Much appreciated and I can see from the photos that the Kato and ST units will indeed look pretty good together.
I'm still not entirely clear on if the details are already installed or in a baggie for the modeler to install (I thought I've seen info or videos where they're in a baggie).
Like I said earlier, and for the reasons peteski mentioned, I would actually prefer to add them myself.

[kiwi_bnsf]

Thanks for all the replies and for the photo comparison! Much appreciated and I can see from the photos that the Kato and ST units will indeed look pretty good together.

I'm still not entirely clear on if the details are already installed or in a baggie for the modeler to install (I thought I've seen info or videos where they're in a baggie).

Like I said earlier, and for the reasons peteski mentioned, I would actually prefer to add them myself.

With the Scale Trains "Rivet Counter" models, all details are pre-installed. There is nothing included separately.

With the Scale Trains "Operator" models, you get only a small a subset of parts in a baggie to install yourself (plow, air hoses, coupler cut lever). All other details are moulded on.

The mechanism and chassis are identical for both lines, but the "Rivet Counter" models include additional truck brake rigging detail, and traction motor cabling on the underframe.

Please note that the "Operator" models do not have 100% accurate tooling for the prototypes they depict. Ditch light locations, cab number board locations, number of steps, and handrail profiles, and side grilles may be inaccurate. That said, comparing the ScaleTrains BNSF Heritage I Operator model to the Kato BNSF Heritage I model, the Scale Trains still has more accurate tooling (and decoration) — so your mileage may vary!

For me, the accuracy of the tooling relative to the prototype is a big factor, and the extra effort that Scale Trains puts in here is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Tim

[sd75i]

  I'm keeping my Katos but have both!  Like them both!  Might try and detail my Katos!

[sd75i]

Hope this might help!

[tehachapifan]

OK, you've all talked me into reserving one (BNSF 4478 DCC/sound ready)!

The BNSF one looks good next to the Kato in the above pics! Glad to see the orange, while a little darker than the really bright Kato orange, looks reasonably close.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I wish someone would do a ‘rivet counter’ GP9. The Atlas model is getting a little long in the tooth, and the railings are regressing in terms of ‘fineness’.

You know I was just thinking about this.
A "rivet counter" GP7/GP9/18/20 would sell like wildfire. You'd be hard pressed to find a railroad that didn't have at least one. If they get into rebuilds it goes even crazier.

If they were well capitalized enough they could crank these out like JTC does containers and laugh all the way to the bank.

[jereising]

You know I was just thinking about this.
A "rivet counter" GP7/GP9/18/20 would sell like wildfire. You'd be hard pressed to find a railroad that didn't have at least one. If they get into rebuilds it goes even crazier.

If they were well capitalized enough they could crank these out like JTC does containers and laugh all the way to the bank.

But Ed, for some reason they aren't listening to people like us...I guess I don't understand why not, although I bet Charlie Vlk could give us some insight here.

[Rod Serling] Imagine if you will a company who offers an SD40-2 and it's variants like the SD40N (UP has over a thousand) in many liveries...[/Rod Serling]

I personally can't see why the turbines (although I think they're great) or the other oddball...

[Ed Kapuscinski]

But Ed, for some reason they aren't listening to people like us...I guess I don't understand why not, although I bet Charlie Vlk could give us some insight here.

[Rod Serling] Imagine if you will a company who offers an SD40-2 and it's variants like the SD40N (UP has over a thousand) in many liveries...[/Rod Serling]

I personally can't see why the turbines (although I think they're great) or the other oddball...

I know part of their goal is to be able to do fun oddball interesting stuff. I TOTALLY get that.

But I think it'd be a lot easier to do that with a money printing machine humming away in the background.

[packers#1]

You know I was just thinking about this.
A "rivet counter" GP7/GP9/18/20 would sell like wildfire. You'd be hard pressed to find a railroad that didn't have at least one. If they get into rebuilds it goes even crazier.

If they were well capitalized enough they could crank these out like JTC does containers and laugh all the way to the bank.

This and then also the 30/35 chassis and 38/40. You could pretty much print money with those.