ESU Announces V5 73199 Kato "K1" style, and new Nano Sound Decoders

[tehachapifan]

...The 73100 which was an earlier design that happened to work well in many Atlas and Kato locomotive models has also run out, but there will be no direct replacement.  Instead there will be a new unit which is designed to fit most Kato hood models like the SD70's, GEVO's, SD40-2's, etc.  According to Kelley Duford (nightmare0331) they should also work in many Atlas hood models as well.  It probably won't be a "drop in" but hopefully it will be as with the 73100 was and only slight modifications will be required....

It appears from the artwork posted of the Kato board that, with its wide middle section, it will at a minimum require a fair amount of frame grinding to get it to fit into pre-sound, DCC-ready Atlas frames. Much like the grinding necessary to fit a 73199 or LokPilot 54650 in those same frames. Same with, say, an IM tunnel motor frame. Then it's a question as to if there will be any frame contacts on this board that align with these frames. I can't see any frame contact representations on the artwork, although it appears there won't be any contacts on the front corners of the board due to other components or pads (If I'm reading it right...maybe we're looking from the back?).

[reinhardtjh]

It appears from the artwork posted of the Kato board that, with its wide middle section, it will at a minimum require a fair amount of frame grinding to get it to fit into pre-sound, DCC-ready Atlas frames. Much like the grinding necessary to fit a 73199 or LokPilot 54650 in those same frames. Same with, say, an IM tunnel motor frame.

I pulled the shell from a DCC ready Atlas GP7 and you're right.  Although I think that model would require a lot of grinding for a 73100 as well since the chassis covers more of the PC board in the middle section.

I checked an Atlas B23-7, Trainmaster and Dash8-40CW and they all had similar designs which would work better with the 73100 shape than the new Kato shape.

[RBrodzinsky]

Thank you John.  I too am confused.  I just missed out on the getting the last of the 73100's.  The loss of them has stopped my sound decoder installs dead in its tracks.  I hope the new design is as versitile.

Conrad

Conrad, John is offering some up from his stash  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=51353.0

[tehachapifan]

I pulled the shell from a DCC ready Atlas GP7 and you're right.  Although I think that model would require a lot of grinding for a 73100 as well since the chassis covers more of the PC board in the middle section.

I checked an Atlas B23-7, Trainmaster and Dash8-40CW and they all had similar designs which would work better with the 73100 shape than the new Kato shape.

Yes, I forgot about some of the earlier, DCC-ready frames. Those do have somewhat narrower channels where even the 73100 wouldn't quite fit without some grinding. I believe I ran into this when doing a sound install on an Atlas GP35 (pre-sound, DCC-ready frame). Because the shell was a tad wider than more recent Atlas hood unit releases (some of those earlier Atlas/Kato offerings had slightly wider hoods and I think Atlas may have kept some of that tooling), I was able to put a LS5 Micro in it instead, which freed the headlight shroud area up for a speaker. Regarding the Atlas B23-7, B30-7 and B36-7, those have a wider stepped-out section towards the rear where I'm fairly certain a LS5 Micro would also fit (I put good ol' original Loksound Select Micros in mine).

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Damn it I missed out on the 73100 sale. Without a 73100 replacement, 80% of my future sound projects will have to be shelved. Who was the genius who thought this was a good idea?

[peteski]

Damn it I missed out on the 73100 sale. Without a 73100 replacement, 80% of my future sound projects will have to be shelved. Who was the genius who thought this was a good idea?

ESU management. 
One bad thing about 73100 was that access to AUX1 and 2 outputs was only on the microscopic solder pads already populated with the 0402 LEDs. The LED locations were also less than optimal if someone wanted to actually use them. But that could have been easily modified for the V5 version of the PC board layout.

I don't like the speaker and motor pad locations on the 73199s. While it works well  for certain plug-n-play models, it is pain for custom installs.  Those pads were in much better locations on 73100.

[reinhardtjh]

I don't like the speaker and motor pad locations on the 73199s. While it works well  for certain plug-n-play models, it is pain for custom installs.  Those pads were in much better locations on 73100.

To be fair, the 73199 was designed for OEM use by locomotive model manufacturers.  Apparently they really like the pads on the bottom for contacts.  I agree for custom installs it's not so good.  I am expecting the new Kato decoder might be half and half - motor pads on the bottom, speaker pads on the top.  Real estate is limited on the top if all contacts are there.  Kelly Duford @nightmare0331  would know.  He provided a lot of input to ESU because of his work doing the Kato Kobo custom ESU sound installs.

[peteski]

To be fair, the 73199 was designed for OEM use by locomotive model manufacturers.  Apparently they really like the pads on the bottom for contacts.  I agree for custom installs it's not so good.  I am expecting the new Kato decoder might be half and half - motor pads on the bottom, speaker pads on the top.  Real estate is limited on the top if all contacts are there.  Kelly Duford @nightmare0331  would know.  He provided a lot of input to ESU because of his work doing the Kato Kobo custom ESU sound installs.

I thought that even the 73100 was designed a s decoder for some manufacturer, but either the deal fell through, or the model was canceled.  So as I see it,  another 73100 or 73199 were designed for custom installs by modelers.

Either way, I sure hope that the V5 of 73199 has thespeaker and motor pads on the top (and bottom), and that the wired nano will have profile as low and the v4 version.

[reinhardtjh]

Either way, I sure hope that the V5 of 73199 has the speaker and motor pads on the top (and bottom), and that the wired nano will have profile as low and the v4 version.

The LokSound 5 version of the 73199 is exactly the same as the 73199 so it will fit the current and past OEM chassis designs.

You will have to look to the Kato and the Nano to see where the pads end up on those.

[RBrodzinsky]

The LokSound 5 version of the 73199 is exactly the same as the 73199 so it will fit the current and past OEM chassis designs.

You will have to look to the Kato and the Nano to see where the pads end up on those.

Well, except for the 8 LEDs

[reinhardtjh]

Well, except for the 8 LEDs

True. I was meaning the form factor and the motor and speaker connection placements to address Peteski's comments.

[conrad]

Conrad, John is offering some up from his stash  https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=51353.0

Thanks for the info but I'm too late.  They are all gone.

Conrad

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Well this is a big opportunity for Soundtraxx. One of their recent videos mentioned a lot more specialized N scale sound decoder boards and if they come out with an Atlas DCC board, there is nothing else available... then I'm going to go that route.

This is the last thing I wanted. None of these stupid boards work well together and now we can't even focus on a single manufacturer because they just want to screw with something that has been proven to work well.

There is little, if any, benefit of V5 over V4 other than being more tedious to program. They already had virtually everything imaginable available as a Select sound file. The stupid default functions don't even line up.

I am seriously considering just tossing sound out altogether. It's not worth the aggravation.

[peteski]

I am seriously considering just tossing sound out altogether. It's not worth the aggravation.

Tell us how you really feel Daniel. Don't hold back. 

There are simple and inflexible sound decoders available out there:  try Digitrax and MRC.  They are pain to deal with because . . . they are so inflexible.

I admit that ESU is probably one of the most complex sound decoders out there, but as long as you just use pre-made sound projects, and just maybe remap some functions, they are not all that bad.

ESU LokSound V5


ESU LokSound V4


Digitrax N scale Sound Decoder


MRC sound decoder.

[tehachapifan]

It would be really hard to believe that they won't at least eventually replace the 73100. Talk about a useful and versatile board. They must have sold a crapload of those. There's got to be a lot of locos out there that could still use a board like that, although I guess they're mostly already owned or on the secondary market.