Help upgrading some Bachmann N scale switcher decoders

[PiperguyUMD]

So what are you guys using to replace the factory decoders in the Bachmann S4 and NW2? Not looking to do sound in these units, just nice control. My S4 project is just a stock swap out, but for the NW2, I've 3d printed a Baldwin VO660 shell, so space is a bit tight. What will I need to have functional headlights to go with your suggestions?

Thanks for your help, I do ok at scratch building/detailing/painting, but I struggle with electronics!

[Steveruger45]

If it were me I would go for a lokpilot. Great motor control. 
http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokpilot/lokpilot-5-micro-dcc/

Zimo also make some great decoders too.
The MX616 might be a good choice.
http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/lokdecoder_EN.htm

[PiperguyUMD]

If it were me I would go for a lokpilot. Great motor control. 
http://www.esu.eu/en/products/lokpilot/lokpilot-5-micro-dcc/

Zimo also make some great decoders too.
The MX616 might be a good choice.
http://www.zimo.at/web2010/products/lokdecoder_EN.htm

Thanks! I've used a few of the Loksound decoders in some F units. Do I need anything special for the lights?

[Steveruger45]

Just some LEDs and series resistors.   I use mostly smd devices, 0603 size LEDs and 1000 ohm resistors.  It doesn’t matter which side of the LEDs the resistor is on, positive or negative but it is important to wire the positive side of the LED to the positive wire (usually the blue wire which is common positive). The white wire is for the forward light and the yellow is for the rear light, these will be soldered to the negative side of the respective  LED’s.
As you already have some Loksound then the lokpilot would be a good choice as they play well together and you can tune the delayed run on a lokpilot to match the Loksound.

[peteski]

I will echo Steve's recommendations - either decoder will be an excellent choice, and they are very small.  Not sure what you mean about the lights. Those decoders have 4 (or maybe 6) function outputs, so lights should not be a problem. But you will have to do the wiring yourself.  I'm not familiar with that Bachmann model, but you will likely have to use LEDs and add current limiting resistors.

[Jim Starbuck]

The Bachmanns are outstanding mechanisms and really shine with a quality decoder.
I recommend the ESU 59820 Lokpilot v5 micro.
I fabricated simple styrene mounts for 0603 LEDs with 3k ohm surface mount resistors which worked well. The stock LED mount was retained on the cab end of the NW2.
The NW2 with the v5 is hands down my slow speed performance champion.

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[PiperguyUMD]

So my 59820 showed up yesterday and I quickly got to work. I've not done a ton of hard wire instillations, but I have done a few. After what seemed like a relatively simple install, I go over to the layout and get nothing. Thinking this might be a pickup issue, because I had replaced the wires from the trucks, I connected jumpers directly from the track to the track pickup on the decoder. Still nothing. I reached the end of my knowledge, are there any other trouble shooting tips that I should be aware of before I return the decoder?

[Jim Starbuck]

From my own hard knock experience I’ve learned to start at square one. Verify there is track power.  I removed a decoder once because I started troubleshooting at square two.
It also sounds like it could be not finding the programmed address if nothing responds.
Perhaps disconnect the truck wires and feed the decoder’s red and black wires directly from the track power. This would isolate and identify if there were something going on with the new truck wiring.

[tehachapifan]

ESU decoders typically have a default address of 3. Is that what you're using?

[conrad]

And for your NEXT install, I'd test the decoder prior to installing it.

Conrad

[PiperguyUMD]

I get nothing. I'm using an NCE system, It tells me that it can't read the CVs in any of the programming modes. If I put it on the main it does not respond to 003. I put jumpers directly from my programing track to the red and black wires and still nothing.

So how often do duds get shipped out?

[Jim Starbuck]

Hmmm, that’s odd. In order for the programming to read it needs to ping the motor.
Are the red and blue motor wires connected to the orange and gray decoder wires?
On the coreless motors I usually connect blue motor to gray decoder and red motor to orange decoder.
It’s not impossible the decoder is faulty but of the 25 or so ESUs I’ve used there’s never been a bad one out of the box.

[tehachapifan]

May not be related but, before I got a LokProgrammer and was still using my layout's programming track connected to my MRC DCC Prodigy Express system, I often had a very difficult time reading CV's off ESU decoders while on the programming track (it may have been primarily or exclusively sound decoders I was having this trouble with). After seeing it recommended somewhere, I tried putting a non-DCC loco on the programming track with the ESU-equipped loco I was trying to read CV's on and even that only sometimes worked. I've seen other recommendations for laying a resistor across the programming tracks as well, but that was also only marginally successful. It had something to do with there possibly not being enough power output to the programming track for ESU (sound?) decoders and these techniques somehow increased it(?). While they seemed to help at least a little, I was worried either of these techniques might not be good for something and is part of the reason I got a LokProgrammer. Also, with one ESU sound decoder I was trying to read on the programming track but was having a lot of trouble with (may or may not have been when I was using another loco or resistor on the track, but I think without), I seemed to scramble the brains in it completely and had to send it in. So, attempt at your own risk....your mileage may vary!

....Also, before I got a LokProgrammer, I had a heck of a time trying to do a decoder reset on the layout with ESU decoders. In fact, I'm not sure I ever successfully did one. It just never seemed to take. Perhaps it had something to do with my DCC system, but I don't know. Now that I have the LP, no more troubles.

[PiperguyUMD]

Hmmm, that’s odd. In order for the programming to read it needs to ping the motor.
Are the red and blue motor wires connected to the orange and gray decoder wires?
On the coreless motors I usually connect blue motor to gray decoder and red motor to orange decoder.
It’s not impossible the decoder is faulty but of the 25 or so ESUs I’ve used there’s never been a bad one out of the box.

One of the motor leads came unsoldered. We’re making progress now, just gotta figure out how to cram everything under the hood. Props to you guys who get sound in these little guys!

[Jim Starbuck]

One of the motor leads came unsoldered. We’re making progress now, just gotta figure out how to cram everything under the hood. Props to you guys who get sound in these little guys!

Glad you found the problem.

I’m a bit confused about having to “cram” everything under the hood. Remove the stock decoder and the ESU only uses about a fourth of the space so there should be plenty of room.
You can clip the purple and green wires off at the decoder or just leave them short to make a little room.
I always try to keep the wiring as short as practical.
Wired installs get easier as you do more. My first attempts were less than optimal.
Another plus for ESU is their wire is finer and more flexible than some other manufacturers.