Kato E8

[mrp]

I have a couple of Kato E8’s that struggle getting through some of my curves. The curves are 24 – 26” radius with super elevation.
My Life Like & Broadway Limited E units get through the same curves with no trouble.
One of the Kato units gets through OK most of the time, but the second one has the lead tuck consistently derail (front end of an A unit). When I hold the sides of the derailing truck and rock it vertically, it doesn’t seem to have as much play as the trucks on the unit that gets through OK.
Wondering if anyone has run across this, and any fixes.

Michael Pennie

[Mark5]

First thing I'd check is are the wheels in gauge?

[RBrodzinsky]

Also that the trucks are seated correctly in the frame, and the wheel sets are seated correctly in the truck

[nickelplate759]

I've had more than one Kato E8 come new with wheels out of gauge, but the usual symptom was derailing in micro-engineering turnouts.  That said, too-wide gauge (the mostly likely problem for a Kato unit) could indeed cause it to climb the rails on a curve.

[u18b]

I have a couple of Kato E8’s that struggle getting through some of my curves. The curves are 24 – 26” radius with super elevation.
My Life Like & Broadway Limited E units get through the same curves with no trouble.
One of the Kato units gets through OK most of the time, but the second one has the lead tuck consistently derail (front end of an A unit). When I hold the sides of the derailing truck and rock it vertically, it doesn’t seem to have as much play as the trucks on the unit that gets through OK.
Wondering if anyone has run across this, and any fixes.

Michael Pennie

As others are indicating, there is clearly something wrong.  24" if way more than wide enough for a Kato E unit.

[Tom L]

I’ve had issues like this on a super elevated curve slightly smaller that. In my case it was a spot where expansion or contraction of the layout had caused the rail gauge to tighten just a very little bit and the outside rail to dip down very slightly.  This would cause the leading wheel of a 3 axle truck to climb over the outside rail. My LL units didn’t do it because the wheels are wide, the fit in the trucks is sloppy and the flanges were deep enough to overcome the slight issue with the track. My Kato E8s with their finer wheels and some of my 3 axle passenger cars with low flange FVM wheels would derail more often than not, at that spot.

It would generally only happen with a train traveling in a certain direction around the curve. 4 axle trucks and locos did not have a issue.

My track is Peco code 55 flex ballasted with matte medium. I fixed the issue by soaking a 12” section of the track at the location of the derailments with rubbing alcohol which loosened the ballast and the track realigned itself. I also cut a gap in the rail just before the curve so it wouldn’t happen again.


It’s been fine for over a year. It was hard to figure out the issue, I ran trains very slowly and watched very carefully as it was not visible just by looking at the track. I also checked wheel gauge first,  which were all good, and that led me to suspect the track.

Tom L
Wellington CO

[mrp]

Thanks to all that replied on this

The wheels are in gauge, and as far I can tell, everything is seated correctly.
But, I will knock it down this weekend and check the fit of the overall truck to the frame.
The engines run fine on non super elevated curves and no trouble either on turnouts, which are all hand made.

The track is in gauge as well, but I hadn't thought to wet the ballast again or cut a gap.
The track areas that are causing trouble are all in the 20 year old range, so expansion & contraction may well be the culprit.
The derailments do occur at the same spot on each of the 3 curves.
But, everything else runs fine through the super elevated curves
Have to take a closer look at the track this weekend with an optivisor.

Again, thanks for all the thoughts on this.

Michael Pennie

[nickelplate759]

I'm thinking now that your superelevation may be a little wonky.  The E8 has a longish truck wheelbase, and if the outer rail dips just a bit or the inner rail has a hump that might be enough to allow it to climb the outer rail.  if the out rail has a hump in it (or the inner rail dips) then it might climb the inner rail, especially if the track gauge is also tight in that spot.

[brokemoto]

..........misaligned rail joiners?   While this is difficult with Kato track, I have seen it happen.

[SkipGear]

The E, F, and PA frame design from Kato does not allow for hardly any twist at all. They will find warped track and the change from level to superelevation if not gradual is enough warp to cause them to derail.

[NorsemanJack]

..........misaligned rail joiners?   While this is difficult with Kato track, I have seen it happen.

At 24" radius, it wasn't Kato track.

[mrp]

As some of you surmised, this turned out to be a track  problem. In the trouble spots, the inside rail had worked its way up (or perhaps the outer rail down). So, something of a wave effect on the engine trucks. No way to tell at this late date if this is due to benchwork shifts over the years, or just lousy work 20+ years ago. But, I am going with # 1. Repairs are done and the engines run fine.

I’m not sure I would have come the this on my own. Everything else I have has been running fine through the same areas for a long time now. Before I did the repairs, I pulled out my sole steam engine, a Bachmann 2-10-2. This ran fine as well. It has a blind center driver, so perhaps another way to go with the Kato units.

Thanks to all the responded

Michael Pennie