Seeking collective wisdom re: F7 with DCC sound

[Kentuckian]

Goal: at least one F7 A-B-A set in C&O livery with ESU DCC sound with the most economy of money, time, and materials.

Assets: one Kato decorated A unit shell, Undecorated A & B shells. Two of the latest Kato DCC friendly chassis. Three first release Kato “dreadnaught” class chassis. Two of the Kato ESU Wutter drop in boards for ESU DCC. Three decorated Intermountain units, two A’s and a B. Access to a mill and enough skill to mill out the Intermountain frames for sound. A paint spray booth, air brush, paint, and decals. Access to eBay and other outlets to sell any combination or all of the above to buy a BLI A-B-A set.

Liabilities: not much painting experience, and “high bow wave” paint scheme looks difficult. Lack of detail on Kato shells compared to Intermountain and BLI.

My entire layout space is just around 10’x15’; I don’t plan on pulling more than around 20 cars.

What’s the “best” way to achieve my goal?

[Cajonpassfan]

Without much painting experience and a painted Intermountain ABA set, why not use it? I find that a single Loksound 5 in the B unit, where there is more room, married to a decent size speaker/enclosure does a credible job. Photo below, install by Rick Brodzinsky.
As to the A’s, maybe a Lokpilot 5 in one and the second one a dummy (with or without a lighting decoder)?
Good luck,
Otto

[davefoxx]

I'd suggest the decorated IM F units and mill the frames out as necessary.  As for install, this won't help on your goal of keeping costs down, but I would put sound in all three units, offset the timing of each decoder ever so slightly, so you can appreciate the sound of three F-units pulling.  One sound unit in a three-unit consist is lacking to me.  YMMV.

DFF

[cjm413]

Goal: at least one F7 A-B-A set in C&O livery with ESU DCC sound with the most economy of money, time, and materials.

Assets: one Kato decorated A unit shell, Undecorated A & B shells. Two of the latest Kato DCC friendly chassis. Three first release Kato “dreadnaught” class chassis. Two of the Kato ESU Wutter drop in boards for ESU DCC. Three decorated Intermountain units, two A’s and a B. Access to a mill and enough skill to mill out the Intermountain frames for sound. A paint spray booth, air brush, paint, and decals. Access to eBay and other outlets to sell any combination or all of the above to buy a BLI A-B-A set.

Liabilities: not much painting experience, and “high bow wave” paint scheme looks difficult. Lack of detail on Kato shells compared to Intermountain and BLI.

My entire layout space is just around 10’x15’; I don’t plan on pulling more than around 20 cars.

What’s the “best” way to achieve my goal?

If you are good at milling and adding sound, but consider painting to be a liability, work with the decorated units you already have.

Rather than making a direct comparison between the decorated IMRC F7A's and Kato F7A you have, keep in mind that the IMRC model is based on the first order that only had the single headlight and no dynamic brakes vs. the Kato model that is based on one of the subsequent orders.

https://intermountain-railway.com/n/html/69219.htm

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/kato-chesapeake-ohio-o-f7-rd-7040-431261030

If you want some variety rather than a matching A-B-A set, it's probably easier for you to add detail to a decorated Kato F7 shell and speed match the chassis to play nice with IMRC rather than painting and detailing another IMRC F7A as one of C&O's later F7A's.

[cgw]

1: Check to see if what you have to do to make the IM A shells fit the Kato DCC drive units.   If memory still work all you have to do is file the sides of the drive units.    Get a lock pilot  for the B unit and use the old Kato drive unit  with the IM B unit shell.     costs: 2Xesu micro's 2 Wutter adapters, 2Xspeakers, B unit 1 esu lock pilot, new couplers to get the spacing correct and several hours of installation and fitting time.   Now you have a decent looking consist.     spent about $270 and got wise on speed matching and programming the sounds  that you want.  Assuming you also have a lock sound programmer.    which will add another 100 if you don't have one.

2: Paint the Kato shells and detail with  BLMA f unit detail set.  if you screw up or unhappy strip and repaint re-decale.  you will still have about $325 invested  and learned a lot,  new painting skills, decals detailing and the programming

3:  Intermountain   bastard file and Dremel with a lot of abrasive disks working slowly you can make the space for the decoders and speaker.  .   spent about $240 for decoders. etc.


4: Put the Kato units on  the buy and sell list, then eBay get about $150. sell the IM stuff get at least $150.   add another $100 Shop around and you will have the BLI ABA set ready to run without any hassles etc.    Muddle trough the BLI Paragon documentation and get the sounds modified,

Doing it yourself can be enjoyable part of the hobby but you need to look at how much auxiliary stuff you need to do it.
I have blown a lot of $$$$ on mils, 3D printers, 80watt CO2 laser cutter,   craft cutters etc.  But these items are part of my desire to tinker.     Other  folks have just used a simple Xacto knife, a bastard file, a five and dime paint brush with craft paints and create museum quality models that rival master craftsmen.   

If you decide to DYI just go slow take your time and ask a lot of questions.  That is the fun part of the hobby

Take care and have a great and healthy Christmas and New Year.

[Cajonpassfan]

I'd suggest the decorated IM F units and mill the frames out as necessary.  As for install, this won't help on your goal of keeping costs down, but I would put sound in all three units, offset the timing of each decoder ever so slightly, so you can appreciate the sound of three F-units pulling.  One sound unit in a three-unit consist is lacking to me.  YMMV.

DFF

Well, no question, three units will sound better than one, so if the money’s there, absolutely, go for it.
But  I thought reasonable economy was one of the OP’s criteria here. In N scale, the physical separations are not as apparent, and I find.my ABA set with one Loksound 5 and a good size speaker/enclosure quite adequate. One trick Rick Brodzinsky showed me was to use a dual engined E unit project file to create an illusion of more than one engine starting and running. So far, no one has noticed the missing cylinders...YMMV, so is if that’s not good enough, you can always buy and install more sound decoders.

[Kentuckian]

Thanks everyone for the input. I learned a couple of things. @cjm413 post made me actually do some research, which of course I should have done first. Sometimes I am guilty of “ready, fire, aim.” The IM unit’s run pretty well, but the road numbers are wrong for the paint scheme. Also, the yellow on these is a little too orange for me. IM did a better paint job on the C&O FP7.

The latest generation of the Kato drives are super smooth, and I like the idea and quick build of the drop in boards.

Hopefully Santa Claus and/or our rich Uncle Sam will help with some finances. The BLI paint scheme is the only one commercially available in the high bow wave. Factory Direct Trains Hobbies has a decent deal on the A/B unit set right now, so I ordered the A/B set from them and the other A unit from the BLI refurb store. I plan on keeping the Kato units and using two sound decoders, one with an F unit file and one with an E unit file. Hopefully I will find the nerve to try painting the undecorated Kato units.

I technically didn’t meet my goal, I suppose. I will end up with two different lash-ups, I hope. One will be from the first order, and one from the second one.  At least one of them will have ESU sound. I don’t know how economical this solution is, but right now this is the plan. I plan on putting the IM units on the ‘Bay after the first of the year.

Thanks again!

[cjm413]

Thanks everyone for the input. I learned a couple of things. @cjm413 post made me actually do some research, which of course I should have done first. Sometimes I am guilty of “ready, fire, aim.” The IM unit’s run pretty well, but the road numbers are wrong for the paint scheme. Also, the yellow on these is a little too orange for me. IM did a better paint job on the C&O FP7.

The latest generation of the Kato drives are super smooth, and I like the idea and quick build of the drop in boards.

Hopefully Santa Claus and/or our rich Uncle Sam will help with some finances. The BLI paint scheme is the only one commercially available in the high bow wave. Factory Direct Trains Hobbies has a decent deal on the A/B unit set right now, so I ordered the A/B set from them and the other A unit from the BLI refurb store. I plan on keeping the Kato units and using two sound decoders, one with an F unit file and one with an E unit file. Hopefully I will find the nerve to try painting the undecorated Kato units.

I technically didn’t meet my goal, I suppose. I will end up with two different lash-ups, I hope. One will be from the first order, and one from the second one.  At least one of them will have ESU sound. I don’t know how economical this solution is, but right now this is the plan. I plan on putting the IM units on the ‘Bay after the first of the year.

Thanks again!

I admittedly overlooked the low wave paint scheme IMRC used.  Renumbering isn't an option unless you want to graft in a second headlight and a dynamic brake fan...unless you could find a unit from the first order that was repainted in the low wave paint scheme...

Stupid, yet easily preventable mistakes like this are far too common with IMRC and are the #1 reason why I refuse to pre-order anything from them.

[Kentuckian]

I just wanted to update this thread, in appreciation for the advice given.

I was able to obtain a BLI A-B-A set. The A unit that I got from the refurb store would not run in reverse, and had to be sent back. BLI made good on their warranty and I had the unit back in about eight weeks. I used one of my old school DC Intermountain chassis to power the dummy BLI B unit with a Lokpilot decoder. I really like the looks of these. I hope to one day replace the Paragon decoders to ESU, but that’s far down the list.

The Intermountain body from the powered chassis used on the BLI B unit was put on the original BLI B unit dummy chassis and sold. That dummy chassis did not roll well. The other two IM units were sold.

I am also working on a Kato A-B-A lashup. C&O factory painted A’s only came with the freight sets. These have the chassis/truck combination that most runners seem to like, the old DC heavy chassis and the low friction trucks. I am using one of these old chassis to power the B unit; it will have a Lokpilot decoder. The two A units have the latest DCC chassis with the Wutter/Skent ESU adapters. One sound file will be an F and the other sound file will be the E8 to account for the silent B unit. Yes, I have some painting and renumbering to do.