Is 9,000' 18,000 tons to much in mountain grade territory?

[Hawghead]

I'm gonna go with yeah.



A couple of days ago one of my fellow engineers on the East pool was called for a soda ash train out of Hinkle.  Looking at the BU before he came on duty it showed the train 9,000' long.  When he got to the terminal, his paper work showed the train 4200'.  Thinking out loud, he said to his conductor "I wonder what happened to the rest of the train?"  One of the Lagrande crews overheard him and remarked "They left the rest of it up on the mountain."  Why did they do that my friend asked, at which point the LaGrande conductor showed him this picture.

I have to say that in 17 years of railroading I've seen knuckles break and even whole draw bars pulled out, but I've never seen a car ripped into two pieces.

Scott

[Point353]

Some of the YouTube hobo videos show those characters riding on the end of a covered hopper.
Imagine being onboard when that incident occurred.
 

[CRL]

There’s your next modeling diorama challenge.

[Missaberoad]

One of our engineers ripped a hopper in half very similar to that last winter...

Makes you wonder that something must be flawed with the cars construction or materials. You would think you would break a knuckle first...

[peteski]

One of our engineers ripped a hopper in half very similar to that last winter...

Makes you wonder that something must be flawed with the cars construction or materials. You would think you would break a knuckle first...

Maybe internal corrosion weakened the structure?

[nkalanaga]

If that's one of the ACF Center Flow cars, they didn't have a center sill.  The pulling stress was transferred from the draft gear to the side sills, and it looks like the side sills broke at the bolster, where the stress would probably be greatest.  I have seen a few pictures of those with the ends pulled off.

Isn't this what "Distributed Power", or old-fashioned helpers, are supposed to prevent?

[ednadolski]

I thought the FRED had some kind of radio telemetry on trainline air pressure or such, which would be lost when the train separated for any reason.

Ed

[Mark5]

Interesting. N&W once ran a 48,584 ton train - the worst thing was a broken knuckle, but these were coal cars. Interesting point on the Center Flow frame.

[CRL]

Sure, but they still had to drag the remnants back to the yard. They’d have to retrieve the rest of the train from the other direction.

[Englewood]

Precision railroading at it's finest! We seem to have quit running some of the 14,000 foot monsters lately. Maybe someone figured out that they're more trouble than they're worth.

[Hawghead]

Isn't this what "Distributed Power", or old-fashioned helpers, are supposed to prevent?

These trains come over the mountain with two or three head end units, four or five mid-train dpu's and one or two rear dpu's.  I believe this happened behind the mid-train dpu's.  I'm sure the frame of the car failed and the weight of the train transferred to the car body which is obviously not designed to take it.

Interesting. N&W once ran a 48,584 ton train - the worst thing was a broken knuckle, but these were coal cars. Interesting point on the Center Flow frame.

The tonnage of the train is not the problem if you have enough power distributed throughout the train to not exceed the strength of the knuckles.  The problem comes, when operating in other than level territory, is controlling the slack, which the longer the train, the more difficult it becomes.

I thought the FRED had some kind of radio telemetry on trainline air pressure or such, which would be lost when the train separated for any reason.

Trains with a dpu or helper on the rear don't use a FRED.  The FRED provides three functions. 1. To monitor train line air pressure on the rear of the train.  2. Provide a means to place the train in emergency from the rear of the train. 3. Provide a high visibility marker on the end of the train.  A dpu on the rear of the train provides all three capabilities.  Any rapid loss of train line air pressure with result in the train going into emergency even without a FRED equipped.  This is a function of the brake valves on each car.

Scott

[Mark5]

The tonnage of the train is not the problem if you have enough power distributed throughout the train to not exceed the strength of the knuckles.  The problem comes, when operating in other than level territory, is controlling the slack, which the longer the train, the more difficult it becomes.

Scott

Definitely! The N&W train was in coal country However, the train was mainly running downgrade.  Slack was about 12 car lengths (per N&W).

[C855B]

These trains come over the mountain with two or three head end units, four or five mid-train dpu's and one or two rear dpu's.  I believe this happened behind the mid-train dpu's.  I'm sure the frame of the car failed and the weight of the train transferred to the car body which is obviously not designed to take it.

I'll bet control continuity was lost between the mid-trains and the rear DPUs. In that case the "lost" units go to idle and become so much dead weight to pull. Just because the control is digital now doesn't fix the physics of UHF radio communications in mountainous terrain.

[Lenny53]

I'll bet control continuity was lost between the mid-trains and the rear DPUs. In that case the "lost" units go to idle and become so much dead weight to pull. Just because the control is digital now doesn't fix the physics of UHF radio communications in mountainous terrain.

Are the rear DPUs controlled from a mid-train DPU and not the lead loco?

[C855B]

Are the rear DPUs controll from a mid-train DPU and not the lead loco?

The mid-trains act as a repeater.