N scale Kato GS4 vs FEF-3

[kiwi_al]

I was wondering which Kato 4-8-4 people prefer, a Kato GS4 or a Kato FEF 3? Mainly interested in how well they run not how prettier one is  over the other. The reason I'm asking is that I have a future project in mind and need either the GS4 mechanism or the FEF 3.

[altohorn25]

From everything I've read, the FEF-3 is a superior mechanism to the GS4.

[carlso]

 What Nate stated, for sure.

[peteski]

Yes, while they both have very similar (and excellent) design as far as the drivers go (most weight is supported on the gear driven and traction tire equipped #3 driver, #1 supports some weight, and #2 and #4 are just there for looks), the original GS4 driver axle tubes were prone to cracking, and it has a small 3-pole skewed armature motor (although with neodymium super-magnets).  FEF-3 uses a coreless motor, and it has redesigned driver axles (not prone to cracking).

Kato did produce a new driver set with the revised axle design for GS-4, but the coreless motor in FEF-3 is still better than the GS4 motor.

[greenwizard88]

The older runs of the GS4 had problems with DCC too, IIRC. If you end up using a GS4, avoid the original run.

[kiwi_al]

Thanks guys, I was leaning towards the FEF 3, at least I should be able to use some of the shell as well as the mechanism. If I used the GS4 the shell wouldn't be needed.

[nightmare0331]

The older runs of the GS4 had problems with DCC too, IIRC. If you end up using a GS4, avoid the original run.

The first half of the first run of 126-0301 GS4's had a shorting issue that manifested itself with the drivers that touched the upper and lower frames blowing the EM13 decoder.

There was a retrofit spacer kit available for those units.

The second half of the 126-0301 GS4's had the spacers installed at the factory and later runs had the frames themselves modified to avoid this issue.

That said, the FEF3 is a much better mechanism and while it has a couple of quirks itself, it has far fewer issues than the GS4.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[robert3985]

...That said, the FEF3 is a much better mechanism and while it has a couple of quirks itself, it has far fewer issues than the GS4.

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

Just curious...exactly what are the "couple of quirks" the FEF-3 has?  Although I can point out several detailing improvements that the Kato FEF-3 needs, mine are flawless runners.  Anything I should be cautious about?

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[nightmare0331]

Just curious...exactly what are the "couple of quirks" the FEF-3 has?  Although I can point out several detailing improvements that the Kato FEF-3 needs, mine are flawless runners.  Anything I should be cautious about?

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

The one I notice most frequently is the fulcrum pins walking out but it's a pretty simple fix once you notice it.

I made a video of it a while back.

The other one is *if* you install sound in the tender and drape wires to the and they aren't hung right, it throws off the balance of the engine and causes the pilot truck to derail.  I figured this out pretty quickly with the first small run of ESU equipped FEF3's I built up. 

Nothing major and easy to rectify in both cases.

Now the GS4...I have horror stories.  I honestly dispise that engine because I've fixed so many of them (think in the hundreds of repairs over the years on the conservative side).  They've gotten much better with the revised drivers but there are still lots of other points of failure and issues that pop up. 

Side note, I can replace a set of drivers on a GS4 in less than 10 minutes.   

Anywhoo...Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[peteski]

Thanks Kelley - very helpful video!

[CBQ Fan]

 I unpacked both recently and ran them on my new layout.  My GS-4 threw a traction tire.  I have replacements but don’t feel like swapping it out just yet. Tempted to just cut it off and run it without. I don’t run the steamers often. 

[skeeter1024]

Thank you Kelly, that video was most helpful.

Mark

[skeeter1024]

Frankly after replacing the traction tires on my GS-4 I switched to filling the the slot with BFS until I got it built up.
I have done this to my 2 GS-4 and 1 FEF3.  My manual dexterity is just not there any more, frustrating at times.

Mark

[peteski]

I unpacked both recently and ran them on my new layout.  My GS-4 threw a traction tire.  I have replacements but don’t feel like swapping it out just yet. Tempted to just cut it off and run it without. I don’t run the steamers often.

The original GS4 TTs seemed fairly loose. I don't have any scientific proof, but the currently available TTs (same as for FEF-3) seem to fit a bit tighter.

These locos require very delicate handling. The TT usually peels off if the non-running loco is pushed on the track.  I guess that having to handle it gingerly is a small price to pay for having a really well running loco that can pull long passenger trains (with the TT installed).  Running without it will probably throw it off balance, and its pulling ability will be greatly reduced.

[CBQ Fan]

The original GS4 TTs seemed fairly loose. I don't have any scientific proof, but the currently available TTs (same as for FEF-3) seem to fit a bit tighter.

These locos require very delicate handling. The TT usually peels off if the non-running loco is pushed on the track.  I guess that having to handle it gingerly is a small price to pay for having a really well running loco that can pull long passenger trains (with the TT installed).  Running without it will probably throw it off balance, and its pulling ability will be greatly reduced.

I had issues with this same one years ago if memory serves me correctly. I have spares and per the Kato website both units use the same tire.