Breaking the Sound Barrier (ESU)

[Mark5]

For some years model railroad sound was iffy - to the extent that I used to say no sound is better than bad sound. 

Now, I have a half dozen factory sound locos, and I was inspired by Kelley's snoot install to add sound to my lone (N) Kato SD40-2.

Link: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=49696.0

This arrived today:

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I will try to emulate Kelley's install (I have a dremel).

Before attempting the actual install - I'll practice my solder skills on some old motherboards. (I still need a speaker and enclosure)

I guess I need a Lokprogrammer to add the correct 645 sounds to the SD40-2 - am I right about that? (is this the one folks here are using? https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/esu-53452-lokprogrammer-set)

Also, should I pick up any particular wire to have on hand?

Thanks!

Mark

[reinhardtjh]

I guess I need a Lokprogrammer to add the correct 645 sounds to the SD40-2 - am I right about that? (is this the one folks here are using? https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/esu-53452-lokprogrammer-set)

Yes, that's the one.  It's showing out of stock at ModelTrainStuff.  If you didn't get one then also available here:

Streamlined Backshop: https://store.sbs4dcc.com/esu53452lokprogrammerset.aspx (Well, also unfortunately out of stock)
Yankee Dabbler: https://yankeedabbler.com/53452-esu-loksound-all-scales-esu-loksound-programmer-part-397-53452/ (Wow, out of stock also!)
Tony's Trains: https://tonystrains.com/product/esu-53452-lokprogrammer (Might be out of stock, can't tell)
ScaleTrains: https://www.scaletrains.com/product/esu-53452-lokprogrammer-set/ (Yep, out of stock)


Uh, looks like most places online are out of stock.  Hopefully LokSound will be resupplying people soon.

Western Depot has 1 in stock (Probably because they aren't discounting the price - $179.95)
https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/44850

Bob the train guy has 2 in stock @ $143.98.  No experience with that shop though.  https://www.bobthetrainguy.com/esu-lok-programmer-53452/

Nothing on Ebay.  Don't go for the 53451 model. It's old and it takes nearly twice as long to load a sound file as the new 53482 model.

[ednadolski]

I used to say no sound is better than bad sound. 

I still say that, and it's perpetually true IMHO.  Also true if when the sound is set too loud, or if when the bell is left on for any length of time.

Most model train sound is a lot better than it was in the 'early days'.  (Boy do I feel old to say that.)  I'm quite impressed with the the latest generation of N-scale sound, and I would even go so far as to say it sounds better to my ear than comparable sound in HO scale, despite that one might think that the larger scale should 'automatically' have better sound.   It's a perception thing really.

That said, nothing compares to good sound in O-scale (given the same constraints on volume and bell), where bigger in such case does amount to better.

I guess I need a Lokprogrammer to add the correct 645 sounds to the SD40-2 - am I right about that?

Check with your vendor, often they can pre-load the sound file of your choice onto the decoder.  Still tho programmer can do some things that you could not otherwise do with say JMRI or a command station.

What I don't like about the LokProgrammer is that it only runs with Windows and hence perpetually locks you into that whole PC-centric infrastructure PITA stuff.   Even if you can set up a VM with PCI passthru you still can't get away from the OS itself, sigh....

Ed

[EL3632]

I have heard from my LHS:

DO NOT USE FLUX ON ESU LOKSOUND BOARDS

Flux causes them to fail, supposedly. I do not know if this has been changed, as this info was passed on during the Select days, but still good to have, I guess.

If I am wrong, please correct me. I would quite honestly love to be wrong in this case!

[ednadolski]

DO NOT USE FLUX ON ESU LOKSOUND BOARDS

Probably they mean acid flux.  Rosin flux should be fine, but you still have to clean it off properly after soldering.

Ed

[EL3632]

Probably they mean acid flux.  Rosin flux should be fine, but you still have to clean it off properly after soldering.

Ed

That makes a lot of sense, thank you. Glad to be somewhat proven wrong!

[jdcolombo]

Hi Mark.

For wire . . .

I keep a set of ESU decoder wire in the main six colors (white, yellow, blue, red, black, orange, gray) on hand.  You can buy it from Streamlined Backshop or other vendors:

http://store.sbs4dcc.com/search.aspx?find=esu+decoder+wire

About $5 per color for 10 meters, which should last you . . . a very long time.  This is 36-gauge insulated stranded wire.  Very flexible, small enough to make runs in the tiniest of spaces. 

I also keep spools of 38-gauge magnet wire in both green and copper colors on hand.  I use this wire for wiring surface-mount LEDs inside shells and elsewhere.  I got mine from Hobbylinc:

http://www.hobbylinc.com/ngineering-38-magnet-wire-1-each-red-green-each-100-model-railroad-hook-up-wire-n5038?source=froogle&gclid=CjwKCAjwq_D7BRADEiwAVMDdHmqavI155d1f36Hn4KJFxByQ3gy4O4rDYQRQi7GxfM8HDrH3tMaglRoCp_0QAvD_BwE

John C.

[Mark5]

Thanks for the input - all! 

I "pre-ordered" the 53452 Programmer (apparently unavailable since June), so I gotta wait on that ...

Looking forward to getting one done!

Mark

[reinhardtjh]

Thanks for the input - all! 

I "pre-ordered" the 53452 Programmer (apparently unavailable since June), so I gotta wait on that ...

Looking forward to getting one done!

Mark

Sorry to hear you have to wait.  There was a similar question on the ESU IO Mail list and several people there siad Bob's was a good place, but it looks like his 2 have sold also.  I know Bryan at Streamlined Backshops had 10 or 12 back earlier in the summer.  It had dwindled to a4 last time I looked in August or early September.  Then they were gone.  Hopefully ESU fills the backlog soon.

[reinhardtjh]

From the ESU CabControl and LokSound Installations group on Facebook.

Sadly it's simply a Covid related component issue. They are coming but part lead times are unexpectedly long right now. We are also looking at other component sources, but they are limited. We want them released more than anyone.

Someone posted that they called Yankee Dabbler and they have 50 on back order.  I expect a lot of places do.  When they do finally get in stock they may not last long.  If you need one, get on a back order list somewhere.

[Mark5]

Slowly getting ready to do some of this - today's topic: Soldering

I searched the forum and I read that some recommend a small iron for working with DCC while others seem to use Soldering Stations.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

[peteski]

Mark,
With today's miniature electronic decoders, a soldering station (vs. just plug-in iron) is the way to go.  Stations allow for temperature adjustment (which is vital not to damage the delicate traces and components on the board, and not to melt the wire insulation.  I suppose you can usually get by with some cheap soldering iron, but using the right tool for the job makes the job easier and less stressful.

Which station? That depends on your budget.  You can get a temperature-controller station for $50 to several hundred dollars.  Here is a good thread to read (and it covers many different options): https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=46121.0

[jdcolombo]

I discussed this in the thread Peteski cited, but I'll repeat it here.

The Pace soldering station (the ST50, which I mention in that thread, has been replaced by the ADS200, slightly cheaper) and in particular the Pace TD100 (TD200 for the ADS 200 system) handpiece, has been a God-send.  The reason is simple: the TD100 handpiece is like holding a Montblanc fountain pen.  That in turn means that you have incredible control of the tip to get it exactly where you want it.  1/32" pads on a decoder are no problem.

You can get a variety of tips for the Pace, but the one I use most often is the 1/64" conical "sharp" tip.  I've found that the 1/32" is a bit big for soldering wires to decoder pads, but the 1/64" is just about perfect.  I do use a 1/32" chisel tip occasionally.  The tips are relatively cheap and last a very long time.  My first one lasted for over a year of daily use.  I'm on my second as of a couple of weeks ago.

The other benefit of the Pace is near-instantaneous heat.  It takes less than 10 seconds to reach operating temperature.  It's a pleasure to be able to flip the switch on and be ready to go.  That means you don't have to keep the unit powered up (and hot) all the time, saving tip life and the occasional burned finger.

It's not cheap, but I've not seen any other system that has as small a handpiece as the Pace.  I can't imagine working on ESU LokSound decoders without it.  And you WILL be soldering wires directly to decoder pads (or the Next18 adapter board) regularly if you want to do neat installations, connect keep alives, and take advantage of the additional function output pads that are available.

John C.

[peteski]

I discussed this in the thread Peteski cited, but I'll repeat it here.

The Pace soldering station (the ST50, which I mention in that thread, has been replaced by the ADS200, slightly cheaper) and in particular the Pace TD100 (TD200 for the ADS 200 system) handpiece, has been a God-send.  The reason is simple: the TD100 handpiece is like holding a Montblanc fountain pen.  That in turn means that you have incredible control of the tip to get it exactly where you want it.  1/32" pads on a decoder are no problem.

You can get a variety of tips for the Pace, but the one I use most often is the 1/64" conical "sharp" tip.  I've found that the 1/32" is a bit big for soldering wires to decoder pads, but the 1/64" is just about perfect.  I do use a 1/32" chisel tip occasionally.  The tips are relatively cheap and last a very long time.  My first one lasted for over a year of daily use.  I'm on my second as of a couple of weeks ago.

The other benefit of the Pace is near-instantaneous heat.  It takes less than 10 seconds to reach operating temperature.  It's a pleasure to be able to flip the switch on and be ready to go.  That means you don't have to keep the unit powered up (and hot) all the time, saving tip life and the occasional burned finger.

It's not cheap, but I've not seen any other system that has as small a handpiece as the Pace.  I can't imagine working on ESU LokSound decoders without it.  And you WILL be soldering wires directly to decoder pads (or the Next18 adapter board) regularly if you want to do neat installations, connect keep alives, and take advantage of the additional function output pads that are available.

John C.

The other perk of those handpieces is that the soldering iron's shaft is very thin (around 3/16") and it is only about 2" long, so your hand is very close to the tip (giving you excellent control). Like John aid: it is like holding a pen in your hand.  Makes soldering even inside the N scale narrow hood shells easy.

I have used Pace equipment professionally (as an electronic technician) for years, and now you would have to pry my TD100 handpiece from my cold dead hand!  The otther nice thing is that the tip cartridges (the tip and eater are one-piece and they simply plug into the handpiece) only cost about $11 each. There are dozens of various shaped tips available - even ones that are designed to remove SMD components, but hose cost a lot more.

[Mark5]

Thanks, thinking long term I have a lot of locos to convert to DCC or DCC/Sound - so the Pace might well be worth it.