State of the Art switching in N scale?

[ednadolski]

For switching cars in yards and industries, what is the current SOTA for N scale with regard to realistic, smooth low-speed and reliable coupling and uncoupling?  I want to achieve an effect like that at 4:53 of this video:

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Note how the loco first stops for the brakeman to get off, then the target car barely moves when the connection is made.

However a lot of the stuff I see in N scale (including my own pretty limited experience) is that the loco often has to hit the cars as too high speed, and the cars will bounce a substantial (scale) distance on contact.  If the prototype hit at such speeds, it would do substantial damage (and potentially derail).  With some N-scale couplers, if the loco doesn't hit fast enough, the target car simply bounces away and does not connect at all.

Are MT couplers (including Z scale) the only real option?  Are there any tricks (extra weight, drag springs, whatever) that help make them work better? Do any of the newer couplers offer any substantive improvements?  I don't do enough switching in N scale to understand what the range of options might be, but perhaps some folks who have a lot of switching expertise can comment?

Another thought, I'm not very impressed with uncoupling via picks or whatever that push the cars around.  Are there any better options?

Side note:  I see this in other scales as well, but lately I have been trying out some of the Protocraft couplers in O scale and Sergent couplers in HO scale.  With some fiddling, these can be made to operate much like the prototype.  I don't of course want to create an unfair or unrealistic expectation for what can be achieved in N scale, but my impression is that is should be possible to get reasonably close.

Thoughts?

Ed

[Chris333]

Gearhead motors and battery powered remote control.

[djconway]

All cars body mounted MT couplers
All couplers hit with graphite powder
All trip pins set to clear the height gauge
All cars at NMRA weight
Use a pick

This does not get you to 100% proto type operation but it gets you close.
I've worked with a few 1:1 scale cars that have to get a fairly firm hit to couple.  (2-3 MPH)

We live in a 3 dimensional world many things can be scaled but, friction, weight and spring pressure do not scale well.

A 100 ton car works out to 200,000 / 160(height) / 160 (length) / 160 (width) / 16 (oz/lb) = .78 oz or 22.15 grams
 

[squirrelhunter]

You probably want a Protothrottle as well, mainly for the way you can gradually apply the brakes.

That said, I'm interested in this topic as well...

[sd45elect2000]

None of my n scale rail cars have brakes, the reason the cars in the video didn’t move was because they had a solid brake set. When you couple into a car gently like that ,there is a good chance the pin won’t even drop and the car moves away. This is especially irritating if the brakeman connects hoses that pop as soon as you try to move. I try to hit them hard enough to make sure the pin drops.

Try making a nice smooth coupling when you have hold of 15-20 Loaded cars!!

Depending on what era you model, they only recently banned employees from mounting and dismounting moving equipment so stopping to let off a switch man usually didn’t happen in the old 1990 days.

Don’t overthink this, have fun.

[jdcolombo]

All cars body mounted MT couplers
All couplers hit with graphite powder
All trip pins set to clear the height gauge
All cars at NMRA weight
Use a pick

This does not get you to 100% proto type operation but it gets you close.
I've worked with a few 1:1 scale cars that have to get a fairly firm hit to couple.  (2-3 MPH)

We live in a 3 dimensional world many things can be scaled but, friction, weight and spring pressure do not scale well.

A 100 ton car works out to 200,000 / 160(height) / 160 (length) / 160 (width) / 16 (oz/lb) = .78 oz or 22.15 grams
 

Spot on.  I'd add that you need to make sure the body-mounts are correctly placed on the center-line of the car; off-center won't cut it. 

As for switch engines that can reliably run at 1 smph (or less), I've found it possible with the ESU-equipped Atlas S-2 and my own ESU install on an Atlas VO-1000 and Walthers/LL SW9.  I don't use DC, so I can't comment about that, but on the DCC front, ESU and Zimo decoders are capable of incredible slow-speed performance as long as the base mechanism doesn't have any binding or mechanical problems and you're willing to put in some time to fine-tune the BEMF parameters.  All of my diesels (nearly all of them Atlas, with a couple of Walthers/LL SW's and a Kato NW2 thrown in) can run at less than 1 smph.   Actually, all of my steam locos are capable of this, too - a mix of Walthers/LL Berkshires, Kato and BLI Mikados, and two Bachmann Consolidations.  Engines that cannot perform at this level don't make it to my layout.  I had 3 Bachmann Berkshires that I retired, because I just couldn't get them to run at <1 smph.  But nearly all diesels produced in the last decade can do it.  Steam might take a bit more tweaking.

John C.

[ednadolski]

All cars body mounted MT couplers
All couplers hit with graphite powder
All trip pins set to clear the height gauge
All cars at NMRA weight
Use a pick

Thanks!   A couple (no pun) of further questions:

 - Any difference for the MT 905 Z couplers?
 - How much effort is there in tuning new cars and keeping them tuned?
 - Does free-rolling metal wheels make much difference (most new cars are like this, but plenty of older ones are not.)
 - Any particular kind of pick (toothpicks, screwdriver, commercial, doesn't matter, ....?)

Ed

[ednadolski]

I've worked with a few 1:1 scale cars that have to get a fairly firm hit to couple.  (2-3 MPH)

None of my n scale rail cars have brakes, the reason the cars in the video didn’t move was because they had a solid brake set. When you couple into a car gently like that ,there is a good chance the pin won’t even drop and the car moves away. This is especially irritating if the brakeman connects hoses that pop as soon as you try to move. I try to hit them hard enough to make sure the pin drops.

Try making a nice smooth coupling when you have hold of 15-20 Loaded cars!!

My takeaway from these is to understand that proto coupling isn't as easy/smooth as some YouTube videos might make it look.  On the one I posted (for example), is that more of a typical or a minority case?

Ed

[Missaberoad]

Depending on what era you model, they only recently banned employees from mounting and dismounting moving equipment so stopping to let off a switch man usually didn’t happen in the old 1990 days.

Depends on the Railroad... We still (legally  ) get on and off moving equipment, pretty sure CN does aswell.

[mu26aeh]

Depends on the Railroad... We still (legally  ) get on and off moving equipment, pretty sure CN does aswell.

Think CSX got rid of the rule as well.  Coming to a complete stop costs time and therefore money.

[sd45elect2000]

Depends on the Railroad... We still (legally  ) get on and off moving equipment, pretty sure CN does aswell.

Getting on and off moving equipment is so much easier on my getting older body, I had a major resentment to that stupid rule.
My ex employer didn’t even train new hires in the proper way of getting on or off even though getting off moving equipment was allowed in an emergency...

[Missaberoad]

My takeaway from these is to understand that proto coupling isn't as easy/smooth as some YouTube videos might make it look.  On the one I posted (for example), is that more of a typical or a minority case?

Ed

It's typical for a joint to make without having to hit it hard... the occasional one has issues maybe 1 in 50 or 100.

Some engineers hit harder then others, some conductors have worse car counts. 

Switching can be pretty rough, but scaled down to N scale smooth is definitely better.


Before I packed everything up for my move I was playing around with True Scale couplers, and was able to get them to couple as smooth as standard N scale couplers. I am still not happy with their consistency...

Would love to have N scale Sergent Engineering couplers!

Getting on and off moving equipment is so much easier on my getting older body, I had a major resentment to that stupid rule.
My ex employer didn’t even train new hires in the proper way of getting on or off even though getting off moving equipment was allowed in an emergency...

I agree! there's more of a rhythm to it, and I feel less impact on my joints... Not to mention avoiding the slack action when you first start moving...

[sd45elect2000]

It has a lot to do with the era too. In the 70s and before it wasn’t possible to make a nice smooth shove To a hitch on a cut of 20 cars with AB brakes and steel shoes and 24 rl or number six engine brake. Unless I am making hitches on long drawbar cars I hit them pretty hard.

The railroads in the old days were pretty fast moving, Dutch drops-or flying switches, kicking out cars, etc. it was a really dangerous place. To an extent it still is but the pace is slower, especially when you can’t foul switches making your switch man do a bit of walking, can’t get on or off moving equipment, can’t drop cuts of cars. 

One thing that in my opinion would be the coolest thing to is to make the rail cars roll on their own. Doing scale drops and kicks etc...
 

[mmagliaro]

Gearhead motors and battery powered remote control.

Yes!  I so want workable battery power to make it to N Scale, but I don't see the batteries getting that small any time soon, and carrying the battery around in a follower car is, ... meh.  It would be glorious to never have to rely on track pickup again.

[DKS]

Yes!  I so want workable battery power to make it to N Scale, but I don't see the batteries getting that small any time soon, and carrying the battery around in a follower car is, ... meh.  It would be glorious to never have to rely on track pickup again.

For a long time I've wondered if it would be practical to deliver power to a locomotive via induction. Mount a series of emitter coils along the underside of the track, and a pickup coil in the loco fuel tank. Wouldn't be practical for a whole layout, but maybe just yards and switching areas.