CSX EDU Sub

[CSXBaltimore]

This is the start of my first ever layout, after having wanted to do this for 20 years or so.  I am to some extent clueless, so I invite participation in helping me find up from down.

We are building the CSX EDU sub, because I am modeling CSX after having watched it all of my life, and we are doing the EDU sub because I am intending to use this layout to learn lots of stuff.


Here are the pertinent desires at this point:

• Space is a 13' x 4' alcove. The left left edge (4') and the rear edge (13') will be up against a wall.
• I want this to be an operational model for model building and rail fanning. I am not looking for switching, so I am targeting continuous run.
• I want this to be a cropped layout, not an overly 'compressed' one. I am only targeting, at this point, one scene where trains run through L<->R.  Think of it as a scene out of a point to point setup.
• Era will be modern freight, modeling CSX. Focus will be on inter-modal, coal, hopper, and tank cars. Much of what I see here on the outskirts of Baltimore
• I want to do somewhat accurate signaling. I like technology so I can see this growing into JMRI integration and possible computer control, as I learn.
• I would lke to run 'long' trains, for as good a definition of 'long' as the layout can reasonably support.
• Inspiration currently is Point of Rocks, in MD.  Specifically I would love to capture the coming together of the Old Main Line Sub and the Metropolitan sub down to the tunnel. Linky
• Id like both sides of the wye to be active track on the layout. I believe this will likely present a large challenge.

Ive purchased a number of books and have been doing quite a bit of reading on a number of topics, and also have been purchasing supplies / locos / and rolling stock like a mad man.   At this point I need to start sketching up some track plans but haven't gotten much traction yet.  I have looked at a number of the software programs and quite frankly, I haven't found the motivation to learn them.  I am thinking about doing it with pad and paper, but it occurs to me that I dont have a good handle yet on how to approach this aspect of getting started.

So Im open to input.  What have you found to be a good approach to getting started on planning tracks and bench work for a new layout? 

I think this will likely be a challenge to figure out, and I am open to compromise if required.  I have considered that maybe I need a fiddle yard on a second level below the layout, with helix's on either side.  But I haven't yet got a clear picture on how to approach this layout or if it will ultimately be feasible.  Im hoping to start sketching some things out this weekend and maybe Ill find traction there.

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated.

John

[GaryHinshaw]

13' x 4' should provide a pretty decent canvas for a layout like this and Point of Rocks is a great focal point for what could be an interesting plan.  First question is: what kind of access do you have to various sides of the 13 x 4 space?  If it's only one long side you'll have to allow for access hatches to reach the back, and you'll probably want the deck height to be high enough that you don't need to crawl to reach them.

As for a configuration: if it were me, I would use the Old Main sub as a lead to a staging yard, and have the Metro sub be a continuous loop for train watching.  There are plenty of scenic breaks to hide turnarounds in that part of the line.  That said, it will be tricky to find space for a wye and staging in 13 x 4.  It might really require lower deck staging and a helix, unless you can live with a short yard and short trains.

As for getting started, just dream about scenes that would float your boat and start doodling.  We can help keep you grounded in reality if you want feedback.

[Specter3]

Perhaps you can draw a quick sketch of the space with doors and open areas indicated.

[pdx1955]

Frankly, for a first-ever layout ,  I'd  put the double levels, helicies ,  and accurate  signaling to the side for now. I think you got a good    goal there and you'll  get there, but I'd  just start with a simple double or single track oval on a 2x4 or 3x 5 benchwork.I'd follow the books and build some open grid benchwork, glue some foam down as a base, add cork, track, etc. This way you can practice  and gain know ledge for wiring, ballasting,scenery, working with DCC, etc. Later, you can recycle the benchwork into the larger plan. It's way too easy for someone  to get overwhelmed  otherwise.

[ChristianJDavis1]

Frankly, for a first-ever layout ,  I'd  put the double levels, helicies ,  and accurate  signaling to the side for now. I think you got a good    goal there and you'll  get there, but I'd  just start with a simple double or single track oval on a 2x4 or 3x 5 benchwork.I'd follow the books and build some open grid benchwork, glue some foam down as a base, add cork, track, etc. This way you can practice  and gain know ledge for wiring, ballasting,scenery, working with DCC, etc. Later, you can recycle the benchwork into the larger plan. It's way too easy for someone  to get overwhelmed  otherwise.

A far as the signaling, if he chooses not to do the complex signalling now, he can at least build the layout in a way that adding it later would not be difficult. Install the signals and wiring as you go, but don't hook them up until you are ready. This way you aren't pulling things back off of the layout, and if you don't end up wanting to go that route, you only wasted a little more time and materials making them operable for either a future layout or a future owner.

[LIRR]

N scale I presume?

[CSXBaltimore]

N scale I presume?

LOL Yes. Isn't that what everybody does? Thanx for pointing out that I omitted that.

J

[DeltaBravo]

John,
 I think a sketch of the space would be helpful.

[jpec]

My thoughts:

Start on the ground floor. Don't try to climb in through a window on the 110th floor. Since you say you're not really 100% sure what you're going to do, start small. Get your feet wet with a module.  Point of Rocks would be a good start. Plenty of trackwork, scenery, different structures and wiring to build some skills. @ChristianJDavis1 is spot-on with his signal wiring suggestion. It's what the big boys do. Put it in now, fish it out later without having to rip up what you've done. Don't sweat the benchwork. More time gets spent worrying about "is this the right one?" than building it. Lightweight but solid is what you want. You're not going to be walking on it or putting a roof on it so thick plywood and 2 x 4 legs really aren't needed. Try to make it portable, I've seen too many layouts end up in the landfill because they weren't meant to move.

Jeff

[LIRR]

if this is your first ever layout, keep it simple...…..

[nsbob]

As Christian has recommended, you can install the signals on your layout without activating them for now.   Since you are modeling modern CSX, dark signals are prototypical.  I can't speak for the entire CSX system, but on the James River Division in Virginia, they keep the signals dark until a train is in the area.
Another example of Ed's Law.

[CSXBaltimore]

Since I posted this I read through your suggestions a few times and decided to take some time and sketch up a few things to get a better feel for the effort.  Its been a while since I posted as I have been trying out several of the layout software programs, settling on Anyrail. What is below is my third version, and its the first that I feel is actually viable. One thing that I did do was run this idea through without being a multi-level layout as was proposed by a few of you.

I still like the multi-level layout idea to be honest, but I do recognize that it makes the project larger and more complex; something to consider as a newbie. I haven't shut the door on that idea totally, but taking the time to investigate your suggestions. Some answers to questions and updated thoughts:

* The layout will put up against the wall on the back and the left. So the left 4' and the back 13' would be inaccessible. Walls drawn in red in the diagram.
* While Point of Rocks was the intended inspiration, I may use the track layout of Point of Rocks but place it in a more mountainous areas. The reason is that that placing a river in a way to be believable seems problematic to model due to the track locations.
* Signalling I think would be comprised of 3 main signal areas, one coming into each of the Wye's, still considering that.


Current layout configuration is below.  Some highlights:

* Double Main for continuous run, with each main having a hidden single track staging / siding rail.
* The double mains have cross over points going into and coming out of the staging areas.
* There is one reversing loop, which makes use of the wye. It was a way of 'hiding' the loop as well as making the wye usable.
* Currently, the 2nd main of the Northbound wye is a dead end, hidden under the scenery. This provides for modeling the POR track configuration even though space was limited. This can also act as a powered staging area to setup photos or other cool scenes.
* I really envision only 2 scenes at this point. The first one is from the wye moving east and north, modeling that POR feel.  The second scene is on the south end of the peninsula, as you can see I have been playing with ideas for some sort bridge over a valley or some such. I welcome ideas here.


To me the big question here is related to  track access on the backside of the layout. I am currently debating on ideas of building the layout so that the mountain scenery lifts off of the staging area, or building the bench work so that it is movable, sliding out from the wall. Kind of like pulling a drawer out of a cabinet.

Operations on the layout, ultimately, I think would be automated through JMRI or TrainController, etc as the staging yards would be normally be out of sight. This could be cool though as multiple trains could be 'hidden' and then 'scheduled' to run around the track, simulating random trains running through the area.


I am open to suggestions on the layout. I realize that I am using a decently large amount of space to model only one or two things. I think that could provide for some awesome opportunities to realism, but I also realize that it is very much not the norm and could be wasting space.

Thoughts welcome.


[ Guests cannot view attachments ]


J

[CSXBaltimore]

The 3d renderings:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]


J

[pdx1955]

For exposed trackage, you really want to keep it within a 30 inch reach or 36 inch max. Beyond that, I can almost guarantee  a poor joint somewhere  or a problem switch . Hard to reach places usually are harder  to build properly or to maintain. So you want to make sure the exposed track is within those limits.

Since the track in the back is hidden, I suggest having the track accessible from below. Make the benchwork  high enough  so you can get under there easily  in case of a derailment  or needed  maintenance .  I think you'd want to have at least a hand's width clearance over the top of any trains  . The more tracks, the higher that needs to be. I'd keep staging tracks separated on two-inch centers, to avoid accidentally  creating a domino effects if something gets knocked over.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Oh man, I LOVE IT.

I think there is a LOT to be said for less being more. It lets you have more faithful scenes which means a much better looking layout. It also means less solving of problems that you didn't need to have in the first place (what I call John Armstrong syndrome). This makes construction MUCH quicker, which in turn makes iterations as your skills improve similarly quick.

Point of Rocks is a great choice for this, although having it "backwards" would bug me personally. Given your space, can you reverse the plan?

One other thing. Given your topography, I don't think you have to have your staging yard truly hidden. Putting a high enough rise there to block the view when looking horizontally, coupled with prototype sized trees should give you PLENTY of cover for it without actually making it impossible to get to.

I used this trick at Wago Jct on my old layout (may it RIP). It worked great.
http://conrail1285.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2018-05-26-23.02.50.jpg

I definitely had to jam my hand in amongst trees to rerail cars from time to time, but it was really no big deal.

Speaking of trees and minimalist plans, I highly recommend reading my treatise on winter trees. Not because you're modeling winter, but because you'll have the ability to give your scenic elements the space they deserve and build them to scale, which means you should also go with properly scaled trees.
http://conrail1285.com/winter-trees-in-n-scale/