single window vs. double window MTL coaches

[Albert in N]

   Just curious about prototype railroad specific use for single window vs. double window heavyweight coaches.  Single window coach is on the right, double window on left.  Looking at prototype Burlington (CB&Q) photos, it looks like some single windows were used on long haul passenger trains.  Was there a window preference for commuter vs. intercity trains?  BTW, the coach on the left has MTL Z-scale 905s but I have not yet added them to the single window coach on the right with the stock MTL N scale couplers.

[ncbqguy]

Neither car matches any Burlington Route heavyweight car.   The window count and proportions are off and the belt rail is high waisted.
That is if you are comparing the M-T cars closely with the prototype.  The single window cars are a stand-in but not for the commuter cars which have more, closer spaced windows, short 4-wheel trucks and different profile roof. 
Charlie Vlk

[nkalanaga]

It looks like the single-window coach has the seats further apart.  On the GN's streamlined Empire Builder, they had two types of flat-roof coaches, with 48 and 60 seats.  The 48-seat cars were for long-distance passengers, while the 60-seat were for short-haul, who could stand to be a little more crowded for a few hours at most.

[thomasjmdavis]

Essentially, the "single window" v "paired window" v "picture window" (large windows like ATSF or some Harriman) was a choice of individual railroads and many had 2 or all three types.  Heavyweight coaches are problematical, because there were so many variations- and any model will only be accurate for a very limited number of roads- "close enough" is in the eye of the beholder.  Cars with fewer seats tend to have fewer windows, more seats have more windows, but NOT a hard and fast rule. Many roads "standardized" the exterior of their cars to some degree, and differences were mostly on the inside. Another observation would be that seating density tended to be higher on long distance trains early in the 20th century, and as time went on, long haul coaches were made more comfortable (more legroom= fewer seats) as railroads sought to attract/retain customers.

In many cases, over the years, cars were rebuilt with major changes to the interior, but few changes to the exterior.  A little rummaging in my books for various roads comes up with coaches similar to both MTL cars, usually built with 72 to 80 seats in the 1913-1930 period, being retired in the 1960s with anything from 42 to 88 seats (not to mention coach-diners, club coaches, etc)- depending on whether they ended up on long distance trains or commuters.  With little exterior change other than a window plated over here or there when lounge walls were moved or partitions installed for some reason.  (Of course, there were also some that were substantially rebuilt and bore little resemblance to the original car).

The general consensus is that the MTL paired window car is based on a B&O prototype, but I don't know if MTL has ever confirmed that.  It is also similar to cars owned by several other railroads.

MTL publicly stated that the single window prototype is a NYC coach- they had many series built over the course of 20 years to essentially the same plan, but given they came from several carmakers, I am sure there were some detail differences.  And while the NYC cars tended to look the same on the outside, on the inside there was variation in terms of numbers of seats according to assignment.  Again, these are similar to coaches of other roads.

My own thinking would be that if you are modeling a car on a long distance train after WWII, "plate over" a couple windows depending on the prototype you are modeling, and use an interior from a steamlined car model, or the Palace Car Co, and some styrene walls, to provide lower density seating and bigger restrooms.

[thomasjmdavis]

It looks like the single-window coach has the seats further apart.  On the GN's streamlined Empire Builder, they had two types of flat-roof coaches, with 48 and 60 seats.  The 48-seat cars were for long-distance passengers, while the 60-seat were for short-haul, who could stand to be a little more crowded for a few hours at most.

Opening up a couple cars, since I have them on the workbench.....
The single window interior in my car (I assume all cars) is set up for 84 seats and 1 small restroom at each end.  The paired window interior has 80 seats and 2 restrooms at each end of the car.

[nkalanaga]

Tom:  So much for my looking through the windows in the pictures! 

[Albert in N]

Thanks, gents!  In the book "Burlington Route Color Pictoral - Volume 2" by Alfred Holck, the center spread is a photo of a Burlington passenger train in Wyoming's Wind River Canyon taken in August 1967.  It is on the route from Denver CO to Billings MT.  The train has a lone silver E-8 pulling a three-car standard heavyweight train.  The cars are a baggage, baggage-mail, and a single window coach painted silver, with the baggage cars still dark olive.  The silver single window heavyweight coach has closer spaced single windows and may have 4-wheel trucks, making it a likely repurposed commuter coach.  I have seen other photos of short, remote location, Burlington passenger trains in later years still using heavyweight passenger cars.  After seeing the new MTL single window CB&Q heavyweight coach, I had to get one. Somehow those short trains appeal to me, even though I do like my Burlington Kato corregated stainless steel passenger train.  Sure, the MTL cars may not be completely accurate for Burlington, but they are OK for me.

[eja]

Thanks, gents!  ........

.....  Sure, the MTL cars may not be completely accurate for Burlington, but they are OK for me.

And is all that really matters !

[thomasjmdavis]

Tom:  So much for my looking through the windows in the pictures!

  I think there is some real opportunity out there for a resin caster or 3D designer to produce some interchange-able interiors for MT for other seating numbers/arrangements.  In addition to various configurations for the coaches, parlor cars were converted to coaches, and the RPO and mail baggage could use interiors,

[SkipGear]

MicroTrains and Palace Car Company have both offered N scale interiors.

https://www.palacecarco.com/products.php?cat=35

https://www.micro-trains.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=104_122&product_id=757