FireBox: A Tiny DCC Train Controller

[BobRunty]

Maybe I misunderstood the intention of Firebox, but I assumed (there’s that famous word), that this was to be an ongoing concern. Not a get 100 sponsors, make 100 units, then move on, I.E. help bring a product to market that hopefully takes off down the road. When most entrepreneurs bring out a new product, they understand it could be some time before actual profits are realized. You often need financial help to get a product to market, which is where investors come in, then you start mass producing and marketing to move said product and hopefully realize eventual profit.
That said, I still like the idea, and would be willing to either wait longer or listen to possibly requesting a little more funding, ( though I’d be extremely leary), to see this though.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Another recent good example of this is the Kato F3/F7/P40/FP40 board designed by @skent.  He saw a need, designed and produced 250 boards on his own, without Kickstarter funding and has a hit product selling on Ebay, Yankee Dabbler, Streamlined Backshops and perhaps other places.

Yep, I have three sitting in F40PHs right now awaiting Loksound boards. These things really make sound installation easy and I can't recommend enough.

[mmagliaro]

Early on, this product excited me with the possibility of it being a very compact stand-alone DCC controller/programmer/booster that could be used even on a workbench for testing.  But I did not invest.  Even setting aside whatever policies kickstarter may have, it seems to me that if one attempts a business venture with other peoples' money and that venture fails, one has a moral obligation to return whatever money is left over to the people who took a chance on you.

[POVC]

David,

Thanks for the reply, I know that was not easy.  That said, I do have 3 questions for you:
1.  When you realized that feature creep had driven the production cost above the remaining available funds, why didn't you post an update informing us of that?  Most of us are reasonable people and would understand, and most probably would have been willing to kick in additional money to get the hardware produced.  I know I considered the Firebox a bargain at $55, and I would have been willing at chip in another $20-$30 for the upgraded Firebox.
2.  Are you still planning on taking $2K of the funds for your time, or are you planning on refunding all available funds?
3.  I do not have a Paypal account and I don't plan on creating one just to get this refund; how are you planning on reimbursing those of us who don't have (or don't want to give you) a Paypal account?

Tim Nixon

[learmoia]

When this thread first started.. I had just purchased a SPROG 3 for the exact same purpose.. cheap and compact desktop replacement for a Zephyr
It cost twice as much as the initial advertised price of Tiny DCC.. (well apparently not if shipping was $30.. )

But I have a Sprog sitting here on my desk ready for programming..

http://www.sprog.us.com/sprog.html

Just sayin..   

~Ian

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I will say this: I can only imagine that Kickstarter takes the sanctity of its process VERY seriously and that it will investigate allegations of the abuse or misuse of its platform equally seriously.

As this thread demonstrates, one bad experience with the service undermines its entire viability.

I hope that David realizes that and follows the appropriate protocols as his agreement with the company spells out and that he realizes that to do otherwise opens him up to some significant  terrible that would extend well beyond his wasted time.

I do not think Kickstarter will take this situation lightly.

[wcfn100]

I do not think Kickstarter will take this situation lightly.

Maybe a stern finger wag?

The ONO 3D printer collected 2.3 million in 2016 and never delivered.  Kickstarter hasn't as much as chimed in.

Jason

[Ngineer]

Can somebody PLEASE help me? 

Kickstarter says:

Wasatch Scale Models needs some info from you to deliver your reward. (DELIVER)

Why on earth is Kickstarter telling me that they need my address to send me the FireBox? They already HAVE my address.

AFAIK the FireBox will never be produced.

So why is Kickstarter lying?

Do I have to request a refund? Or wait for the FireBox to be shipped?

I don't get it. I really don't.

What should I request? Refund? FireBox? Can somebody PLEASE help me? 

It's my first (and last) time using Kickstarter.

   Javier (Backer number 31)

[thomasjmdavis]

Javier,
I posted an inquiry (not a complaint, mind you, but a request for clarification) to Kickstarter late yesterday, requesting clarification on why they were sending out those "Last chance" emails when after the developer had informed us (also through Kickstarter, so in that sense, they have a copy of the email he sent us, why didn't they read it?) that he had abandoned the project.  I have not yet received a reply, other than the automated "thank you for contacting us" email with a service # and promise to get back to me. 

Beyond this particular situation, I am interested to see how Kickstarter responds, and will keep folks here informed if I do hear anything.  The response, or lack thereof, in this circumstance will determine whether I ever have anything to do with Kickstarter projects in the future.  At the very least, I expect an acknowledgement from Kickstarter that they are aware of the abandonment of the project, and that the developer is keeping the tools, rights to the designs, and part of the proceeds, along with an explanation of how this is consistent with their rules.

[up1950s]

Ah ... the joys of DC vs DCC are in the thickness of ones wallet .

[C855B]

I posted an inquiry (not a complaint, mind you, but a request for clarification) to Kickstarter late yesterday, requesting clarification ...

I also made a similar inquiry last night, after clicking around their FAQ for the umpteenth time trying to find answers about failed projects, refunds, etc. Funny, there didn't seem to be anything even close to our situation in their answer set. The "report this project" link also had no canned choices describing our predicament, not even an "Other..." option. Seems (to me) they wish not to acknowledge that everything about their service isn't roses.

It took a bit of fishing around on the site for a means to contact about this. I found and completed the pop-up form, but haven't heard back, not even a "we'll get back to you" acknowledgement. I do have Jason's @wcfn100 observation firmly in mind about Kickstarter's checkered history, that even a very large, popular project can rake-in the big bucks and result in bupkus, with no repercussions other than a lot of folks out their "investment".

Bottom line, I think, is this service which ostensibly positions itself as a venture capitalist for the masses doesn't have nearly the accountability teeth that a true venture capitalist syndicate would have. Lesson learned, I s'pose.

[thomasjmdavis]

Mike, et al,
I was mistaken, I did not get an email on my submission, but I did get a pop up "thank you for your submission" (or something like that).  I did a little more investigation just now. 

To see a record of your submission: log in.  on the upper right of  the page, your log in name appears with a "down arrow" next to it.  If you click that arrow, you get a drop down menu that includes "my activities."  Clicking on that brings up a page that gives you choices of "requests" "contributions" and "following".  When I click "requests" it shows my communication of last night.  With an ID # for customer service reference.

[thomasjmdavis]

Hmmm......an interesting addendum.  My $46 "contribution" to firebox is no longer listed under "contributions".  I guess because the project was "completed".  lol.

So, yeah, I am beginning to believe that Kickstarter is a scam. 

[mmagliaro]

When this thread first started.. I had just purchased a SPROG 3 for the exact same purpose.. cheap and compact desktop replacement for a Zephyr
It cost twice as much as the initial advertised price of Tiny DCC.. (well apparently not if shipping was $30.. )

But I have a Sprog sitting here on my desk ready for programming..

http://www.sprog.us.com/sprog.html

Just sayin..   

~Ian

Well, something that is ready to ship is obviously worth more money than something that is under development.  I look at the sprog, and you can buy a complete system, including the little Raspberry Pi computer, enclosure and power supply, for $189.  That seems like an awfully good deal for a stand-alone DCC programmer/booster/controller.  One would only have to hook up a monitor, keyboard, and maybe a USB hard drive or thumb drive, and many people have that stuff just lying around from old computers.

[wazzou]

Ah ... the joys of DC vs DCC are in the thickness of ones wallet .

One of the things they teach you in standup comedy workshops, is to know your audience.