FireBox: A Tiny DCC Train Controller

[peteski]

Just got an e-mail the project has been abandoned. Hopefully get some money back.

Just like that? Even after passing FCC certification?  Looked like a done deal. 

[C855B]

The way I read the Kickstarter Terms of Use is that once a project is fully funded, the project originator is obligated to deliver unless there are insurmountable technical limitations or other unforeseeable circumstances. Just because [the originator] suddenly decided it's too much work, that future support will be an onerous task, or they need to prioritize their studies at school, doesn't meet those criteria. At least in my view of the world, YMMV.

To David @dcutting : Unless your objective is to be banned from Kickstarter, I respectfully suggest you strike the notion that you're going to pay yourself for work not completed. Disburse the remaining funds based on the contributions, and we'll call it a learning experience for everybody.

[MK]

I don't have a horse in this race but have been following from Day 1.  This sounds like a scam to me.  The reason(s) given is simply just not good enough.

[BobRunty]

Me thinks there is more to the story than, “I’ve decided to devote more times to my studies”. With it supposedly being so close to finalization, I’ve a hunch final cost realizations pointed to him losing his rear.

[jereising]

Mr. Cutting will make a great politician.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me three times, shame on both of us.

[kscessandriver]

At this point, I consider my contribution gone, which is what it is. The real issue here is, the next time someone else has a kickstarter for a real project that will really be completed, many people are going to second guess funding it because of the charade that took place with this.

[Mark5]

Unfortunately, I know a few folks that have been scammed by various kickstarter schemes.

[C855B]

I would like to dissuade any thinking that this was a scam. From my direct and indirect correspondence, I have come to understand that David is an enthusiastic and talented young man, but as underscored by his status as a student, he has not yet learned the fine points of estimating. It doesn't help, however, that repeated instances of bad determinations of the value of his time and intellectual property* seem to punctuate promises that are rarely realized, and this is where relationships and reputations are soured.

* - The whole "bid" thing for Cutting Edge Models once he decided he didn't have time for that, either.

For that matter, as an engineering project manager I've made my share of "Oh, crap!" mis-estimates on projects large and small. So I do actually feel badly for David, I've been in his boat, but only a couple of times was it with my own money at stake. So my advice is sincere, and from experience. Again - the time was his to donate to his project, he doesn't get to cash-in on talking a good game, even if there was work done and there were reasonable and accurate progress reports. Product was promised and payment received on that promise, but to no avail. As a revered childhood mentor drilled into me, what matters is "Results, not excuses!".

Bottom line is basically a screw-up - David over-reached and over-committed, underestimated the chunk FCC compliance took out of the budget, and didn't stop revising the design (a true engineer knows when to stop!), among other mid-development issues. As a result he doesn't have enough of the funding left to produce the committed units. Bluntly, I knew he was in trouble once "FCC testing" was mentioned. The requirement mandates professional, certified 3rd-party analysis and can be expensive; I firsthand know of a number of consumer-market products where development was scuttled because FCC compliance testing made the per-unit retail price uncompetitive.

As to affecting the value and import of Kickstarter... yeah, once burned, twice shy. 

[conrad]

Nuts, I requested a refund. 

BUT

What does this say about DCC++ EX project where David Cutting is listed as one of the two lead developers of DCC++ EX?


I've  been mulling over installing DCC++ EX to replace the original DCC++ but now am worried.

As was said:

Mr. Cutting will make a great politician.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me three times, shame on both of us.

Conrad

[Chris333]

Wow I haven't read this thread in a long time. Back then it was all yippie! now not so much.

[Rivet Miscounter]

I go back and forth between being mad/disappointed and wanting to sit David down and say "dude, you are blowing a *huge* opportunity here" regarding education/career.    Finish this, show some resolve, some "sticktuitiveness" and you're writing your ticket.

But the reality is, he's done this more than once, and he needs to accept accountability for failing.   He has built a reputation as an "accidental scam artist" and someday he's simply going to have to learn that lesson.  You lose the ability to argue your payday when you deliver NOTHING.    Either finish the project, or cut your losses and return what money is left and move on.

[CRL]

Have any of you investors reported this to Kickstarter yet?

[C855B]

Have any of you investors reported this to Kickstarter yet?

Not yet. But don't think my mouse didn't hover over the "Report to Kickstarter" button more than once. I'm wanting to give @dcutting the opportunity to stick his nose in here, read the advice, and follow through on not taking "his cut" out of the bank before determining the final refund amount. If the tune doesn't change by next Friday (10/16), I plan to lodge a complaint.

I go back and forth between being mad/disappointed and wanting to sit David down and say "dude, you are blowing a *huge* opportunity here" regarding education/career.  ...

Here here!

[greenwizard88]

I think that the biggest mis-step was his mishandling of expectations. Had he been more up front about the concerns, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But he said that it was pretty much done when he announced it. Leading to a lot of WTF's.

From an engineering standpoint, I'm not going to give the guy any grief. He

1) Open sourced all of his work. Anyone else can pick it up if they want to.
2) Contributed code back to the community, which helps everyone.
3) Took a modest fee for his time. $2,000 over ~12 weeks isn't much.

[thomasjmdavis]

I think that the biggest mis-step was his mishandling of expectations. Had he been more up front about the concerns, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But he said that it was pretty much done when he announced it. Leading to a lot of WTF's.

From his kickstarter page:

Risks and challenges
I've already built a working prototype of the board, and have found suppliers that can make the assembled PCBs reliably and quickly. I anticipate no delays in delivery of the boards.

That is the only "risk" listed- and it is indicated that the risk is resolved by and no problems with delivery are anticipated.  Other than that, there is a link to kickstarter's "accountability" page.

Beyond that, Kickstarter sent me an email telling me the project is complete, and asking for my address etc. so it can be sent to me (with a "refund" option at the bottom of that page).  Perhaps he needs to tell them he has NOT completed the project, and is indeed abandoning it and only offering partial refunds.