FireBox: A Tiny DCC Train Controller

[POVC]

I have to say i am very disappointed.  While I realize there is rick any any Kickstarter campaign, this one seemed as close to a sure thing as possible.  As previously noted, his page said he had a working prototype, so my assumption was he needed the funds to complete testing and production, and since he far exceeded his funding goal this should not have been an issue.  Yes, problems were discovered during testing, but none were insurmountable and all were overcome.  And I can understand a student underestimating costs and effort, but that is no excuse for dropping the project.  I'll note taht all reports wer positive right up until the final email cancelling the product.  If I read the Kickstarter rules correctly, if there are issues that might prevent the completion of a project, he is supposed to inform the investors and get feedback on how they want to proceed, not unilaterally make a decision as was done here.

At this point instead than getting a refund, I'd rather he use the funds to produce the promised hardware and provide it to the investors; at least that way I'd get something for my investment.  And know knows, one day somebody might complete the software and make it useful.  If on the other hand he decides to proceed down the refund route as originally stated, all remaining funds should be returned to investors; his investment was the time and ours was the money, he shouldn't be paid for his time until the investors either receive the promised reward or a full refund.

Tim

[James Costello]

Losing $40 on product is one thing, but losing another $30 for shipping on a product that won't be shipped is just theft.

[learmoia]

$30 for shipping is theft even if you got the product.....

~Ian

[MK]

That $30 sounds like a theft surcharge!   

[rodsup9000]

 
I've followed this since David started the campaign. Looked like he had everything in place and it would be a slam dunk.
Now it sounds like David won't make any money if he completed the project. So instead of completing it without a profit, he decides to cancel the campaign and pocket a little money and refund the rest.  I guess we can be thankful he didn't just keep all the money.

Sad thing is that Kickstarter doesn't care as long as they got their money. 


 Lesson learned- Don't use crown funding
 
Look up "XMachines' Introduces Lorei Uno and Lorei Duo by XMachines"   I was/am a backer ($350) on this one and there was a lot behind the scene legal work against kickstarter and XMachines. The campaign raised $500,000.00 (half a million) and couldn't deliver.

[conrad]

Losing $40 on product is one thing, but losing another $30 for shipping on a product that won't be shipped is just theft.

Too bad, I am only out $6 for shipping.

Conrad

[conrad]

From his kickstarter page:
That is the only "risk" listed- and it is indicated that the risk is resolved by and no problems with delivery are anticipated.  Other than that, there is a link to kickstarter's "accountability" page.

Beyond that, Kickstarter sent me an email telling me the project is complete, and asking for my address etc. so it can be sent to me (with a "refund" option at the bottom of that page).  Perhaps he needs to tell them he has NOT completed the project, and is indeed abandoning it and only offering partial refunds.

When I went to Kickstarter to get my refund (if any) I ended up on the same page as Thomas.  I checked the refund box. 

Is this the correct way to get a refund?

Starting to feel like a Bernie Madoff investor.  Maybe I'll re-watch "The Wolf of Wall Street" to better understand investing.

Conrad

[learmoia]

'The Big Short' (imho) IS a great movie about investing.. (centered around the housing bubble and bust)

[C855B]

Hey, guys - something is fishy here.

Notice that the e-mail we all received linked us to complete a survey, where the choices were either complete the name/address and shipping info to "receive our reward" in the form of a finished FireBox controller, or to request a refund. Then there was that separate e-mail - the word soup - from David telling us to respond to the survey by requesting a refund.

Somebody correct me, please, but apparently David has told Kickstarter "the project is complete" and not that the project was cancelled. Otherwise, why would we get the delivery option? Then he made a separate end run with the e-mail to get around Kickstarter's accountability system. Likelihood is near certain this is a bald-faced violation of the ToU, and to follow David's instructions [...grimacing here...] more or less has us participating in a petty fraud against Kickstarter and, indirectly, us.

I am still going to hold off until Friday before filing a complaint with Kickstarter for the opportunity for David to back off the self-payment. However, on the sudden realization of how the "survey" was intended to function, there are lots of warning bells, red flags, etc., etc., that this whole end game is NOT kosher.

[nickelplate759]

The Kickstart page does have an update, from 10/9/20, titled "The End of the Road".  You have to log in to see it.

[thomasjmdavis]

The Kickstart page does have an update, from 10/9/20, titled "The End of the Road".  You have to log in to see it.

The kickstarter page does indeed have an update- but it is the same thing we received as an email BEFORE kickstarter offered us our fireboxes or refund.  So I agree with @C855B  that it certainly appears that he clicked some button on his screen that indicated to kickstarter that the project was complete and ready to ship.  As of my last check of email an hour ago, I have received nothing from Kickstarter itself to indicate that the project was abandoned, and that refunds would be partial, or explaining how his billing us 2 grand for his services jived with the kickstarter rules.  And for that matter, last time I viewed the kickstarter page (yesterday, I think, might have been a day earlier), the "add to cart" was still live and you could (apparently) still make a purchase of the canceled product.

[Chris333]

Well he was last active... today.

[C855B]

Well he was last active... today.

Yep. 10:43 a.m. He knows what he needs to do. And there's a lot at risk for 'im at this point, there's >>0 possibility that somebody won't wait a week to complain and trigger an audit and/or impound. What concerns me is by calling it "complete and shipping" that doing so releases escrowed funds.

[Frankly, I couldn't give a rat's patoot about the $61 I "contributed". More than most I knew it was a risk. It's the way it's been handled that sticks in my craw.]

Like I said to another in the background, "Short-sighted kid, basically." 

[POVC]

I too believe Kickstarter has been told the project is complete rather than cancelled.  I have held off responding to the Reward Survey awaiting further clarification from the developer.  I have posted notes here, on the Kickstarter page, and sent a separate message via Kickstarter to the developer asking him to respond to the concerns raised in those posts.  If he does not publicly respond within the next day or so, then I will file a complaint with Kickstarter.  I don't expect him to respond, but I need to give him the chance.

Tim

[kscessandriver]

I too believe Kickstarter has been told the project is complete rather than cancelled.  I have held off responding to the Reward Survey awaiting further clarification from the developer.  I have posted notes here, on the Kickstarter page, and sent a separate message via Kickstarter to the developer asking him to respond to the concerns raised in those posts.  If he does not publicly respond within the next day or so, then I will file a complaint with Kickstarter.  I don't expect him to respond, but I need to give him the chance.

Tim

For what it's worth, I filed a complaint on the kickstarter website 2 days ago already. Haven't heard anything at this point. And like others, its not the $61 I'm out that I'm upset with, it's how it has been handled.