Question and/or comment about KATO

[carlso]

Hang on, this is not a flame job as I am a KATO person. I have just read the thread regarding KATO's soon to be released SD-70M's and it opened some thoughts (smell the sawdust burning?).

Wishing KATO would to this or that and how many opportunities they may be missing. Really, well here is one for pondering. KATO had a huge (I think) hit with their 4-8-4 #844. Am I sort of correct here? They did do another black "freight" version. I am no UP expert but couldn't they do a "greyhound" scheme in either silver or yellow stripes, or in each scheme, and possibly more that I am not aware of.
Looks to me like they missed the boat on sales for the excellent performing steamer.

Just pondering, as if there is not enough to ponder in today's world.
Carl

BTW, couldn't they make an MT-4 out of a GS4 mechanism and shell without too many changes?

 

[peteski]

I'm a Kato-fanboy, and whenever the subject of U.S. prototype model projects comes up, I'm told that Kato is a Japanese company, mainly catering to Japanese modelers (and mostly producing Japanese prototype trains).

U.S. market is secondary. Plus, what they make or not is a whim of Mr. Kato himself.  Yes, they could make a small fortune by producing lots more of U.S. prototype models, but their factory are already very busy pumping out Japanese models (and Mr. Kato has the final say).

I would love to see Kato produce lots more of U.S. prototype N scale models, but does that matter?

[Point353]

If you listen to the comments made by Alex from Kato, starting at about 12:30 in the following video, it took years of requests from customers and input from polls to get the NYC 20th Century Limited put on the production schedule.

[RSWController]

It doesn’t matter. We’ve been questioning Kato for decades and nothing changes. And that fine. How many people have been asking/begging for Southern Pacific AC4400CW’s? I look forward to their announcements and when nothing comes out of interest I still look forward to the next one.

[w neal]

Yeah. You really have to understand the situation. The Japanese factory calls the shots. Not the guys in Chicago. Complaining to them only goes so far. Their hands are tied.

[u18b]

I'm a Kato-fanboy, and whenever the subject of U.S. prototype model projects comes up, I'm told that Kato is a Japanese company, mainly catering to Japanese modelers (and mostly producing Japanese prototype trains).

U.S. market is secondary. Plus, what they make or not is a whim of Mr. Kato himself.  Yes, they could make a small fortune by producing lots more of U.S. prototype models, but their factory are already very busy pumping out Japanese models (and Mr. Kato has the final say).

I would love to see Kato produce lots more of U.S. prototype N scale models, but does that matter?

This pretty much sums up anything I have ever heard- including from Kato reps I have spoken to over the last couple of decades.

As a CSX fan, I'm just glad that they have improved their research over the years.  Out of about 16 or 18 CSX locomotives, about half have something wrong with the paint scheme (most of those were the early ones).

You can find the same question you asked going all the way back to the early 90s.   Back then, people were asking why Kato didn't make F units in loads of schemes. 

So your question is over 25 years old.

But because Kato is who they are, other companies have stepped in with products.  Best examples are Intermountain with all their F units.
And Intermountain and Broadway with the SD40-2.

[Maletrain]

Kato steam locos have sold well in the U.S. and have an excellent reputation.

So, I would think that an N scale 4-6-2 (that is not a K-4 like Bachmann just delivered) would have a good chance of being a real hit in the U.S.  In particular, one with 74" USRA driver size instead of the larger K-4 drivers would be able to be provided with shells for a lot of non-USRA variants, and would not have to compete directly with the larger-drivered Bachmann models. 

Kato already has a model of the Japanese C55 4-6-2.  The prototype had only 69" drivers, but the model has huge flanges, so I don't know how the model's axle spacing would work with the USRA or even the K-4 diameter drivers.  I know that there are already conversions of Kato C55s to U.S. prototypes, including K-4s.

[Ike the BN Freak]

Having visited the Kato store in Tokyo, you can see what the US prototype versus Japanese/European prototype split looks like. I was there in the summer of 2012, and it appeared to be around 15% of their total available models were US prototypes.

Kato makes what the Japanese offices want, the US office gets input into ideas/designs, but if the Japanese office doesn't want to do it, it won't be done

[peteski]

Kato steam locos have sold well in the U.S. and have an excellent reputation.

So, I would think that an N scale 4-6-2 (that is not a K-4 like Bachmann just delivered) would have a good chance of being a real hit in the U.S.  In particular, one with 74" USRA driver size instead of the larger K-4 drivers would be able to be provided with shells for a lot of non-USRA variants, and would not have to compete directly with the larger-drivered Bachmann models. 

Kato already has a model of the Japanese C55 4-6-2.  The prototype had only 69" drivers, but the model has huge flanges, so I don't know how the model's axle spacing would work with the USRA or even the K-4 diameter drivers.  I know that there are already conversions of Kato C55s to U.S. prototypes, including K-4s.

But the elephant in the room is not whether a model will sell well, or if another existing model can be easily adopted:  it is all about what Mr. Kato wants.  Period!  While (in our American eyes) seems totally counteractive for a business, it is what it is.  You and me can lobby Kato to produce some model, and even present valid business justification, but we can't control what Mr. Kato wants.

[Ngineer]

KATO had a huge (I think) hit with their 4-8-4 #844. Am I sort of correct here?

I am not so sure. It looks good.

Mine has a weird problem. I can't figure out what to do.

The front truck (4) ist very lose. It jumps off the track quiet easily, which leads to derailments. I have no idea what to do. The beautiful 4-8-4 now sits on my shelf. 

   Javier

[nscalbitz]

But the elephant in the room is not whether a model will sell well, or if another existing model can be easily adopted:  it is all about what Mr. Kato wants.  Period!  While (in our American eyes) seems totally counteractive for a business, it is what it is.  You and me can lobby Kato to produce some model, and even present valid business justification, but we can't control what Mr. Kato wants.

Making bigger sales, big $$ profits and monopolising the market isn't in the Japanese culture predominantly. And a country as wealthy as they are, live by a very old code of honour and ethics, sometimes to their detriment in Western opinions- yet they roll to their own tune.
So The M.I.C. does call the shots and everyone who works for him is very happy.

The 'more and bigger' grasping greed and mentality of so-called 'mature' Western civilisation and 'free markets' is really a fantasy- perpetuated by those gross consumerist promoters and developers and their 'financiers' who plunder the imploding economy. Virus epidemics come and go, as do money-making schemes, the moral high ground and firm stable finances will exist longer. Japans economy and people have that strength.
Where's Charlie... ?
respectfully, dave

[peteski]

I am not so sure. It looks good.

Mine has a weird problem. I can't figure out what to do.

The front truck (4) ist very lose. It jumps off the track quiet easily, which leads to derailments. I have no idea what to do. The beautiful 4-8-4 now sits on my shelf. 

   Javier

So we have a little OT diversion. 



There should be a spring at the pivot point which exerts downward pressure on the front truck (keeping it on the rails).  It should also swivel easily slide to side.  But these locos have narrow tread and small flanges, so if your trackwork is not very good, they will have problems staying on track.  These locos (for the same reason) also do not like Peco switches: the drivers drop down into the frog's flangeways.

Is it always jumping the track at the same locations?  That might indicate problem with the track.

[wes_sutton]

I'm a Kato-fanboy, and whenever the subject of U.S. prototype model projects comes up, I'm told that Kato is a Japanese company, mainly catering to Japanese modelers (and mostly producing Japanese prototype trains).

U.S. market is secondary. Plus, what they make or not is a whim of Mr. Kato himself.  Yes, they could make a small fortune by producing lots more of U.S. prototype models, but their factory are already very busy pumping out Japanese models (and Mr. Kato has the final say).

I would love to see Kato produce lots more of U.S. prototype N scale models, but does that matter?

And having recently announced their first serious forays into the UK market.........more pressure on production line capacity.

[ncbqguy]

Where's Charlie... ?

Dave,
I am Sheltering in Place in Middle Tennessee reading this thread and resisting commenting.
Too bad the N Scale Enthusiast Convention won’t be here this year.....it was only 15 minutes from my house.  Maybe I will have a layout next time!
Charlie Vlk

[nightmare0331]

the greyhound version of the FEF3 has been on the schedule but bumped back plenty of times due to other projects.

At some point, it will probably will get done.  When?  My crystal ball is murky.  Being that Hiroshi is going all steam ahead (no pun intended) on the big boy, that will eat up significant resources and manufacturing capacity.  There is only so much time, money and labor available as with any business, so it's not like a button just gets pushed and product comes out.  On a good day, we are working two years out on product development.

While Hiroshi certainly does have final say in go/no go on things, *generally* North American prototypes and development gets driven by the US market based on recommendations and observations of the US market.  And you have to have a plan.  And the stars need to line up.  And you will drink alot.  And you will get gray hair out of frustration.   That's how I was able to get the Pullman Standard bi-levels in N scale (which led to the CNW  400 set and the Metra single car releases...it sort of morphed into the 400, but it worked).   Granted, some projects get pushed ahead because someone is actually sticking up for them and championing them such as that example.  It can't just be 'we should make podunk and southern railroad SD40's because it would be neat'...well, okay, can we sell enough of them to be profitable, and based on other available choices we *could* do, which one is a better use of limited time, capacity and labor?

Of course, there is far more to things then I'm going to put into a public forum, but it's not as clear cut as 'their staff over here has their hands tied' and 'it's what the Japanese market wants.'

Anywhoo...take this with a grain of salt

I hope everyone is staying safe!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com