DCC to DC on

[TMatt253]

So this question is most likely the reverse of the average DCC question, but here it goes. I've been desperately looking for some n-scale f units in the warbonnet paint scheme after missing out on the most recent Kato release. Recently I found a listing for an ABBBA set on eBay, but the engines are all equipped with DCC. The two A units have sound as well. My layout is currently DC with an MRC Tech II 2800 dual cab throttle. I want to know if I would be able to run these engines as is. If not, how hard is it to convert a DCC locomotive back to DC? I one day plan to convert to DCC, and I know some people's solution might be to recommend a switch, but DCC is not feasible for me at the moment. That being said, if the engines could run without any changes to the decoders that would be a win win. Thanks in advance.

Trevor

[Steveruger45]

Do you know which decoders they each have?
Are they hard wired or the plug and play drop in style?
Do you know if these locos will also come with the original dc boards?

Some decoders can run on dc, some others that can may have had the CV’s changed so it won’t run on dc. If you don’t have a dcc command station you would not be able to check yourself but a friend could help with that.

If they do come with the original dc boards the best would be to remove the dcc boards and drop back in the OEM dc boards and then sell the decoders

[POVC]

Most decoders are dual mode decoders that run on either DCC or DC. However, most also can be programmed to turn the DC mode "off" by changing a bit in one of the CV's.  I believe the default value for most decoders is DC "on", so unless the previous owner changed it they should run on DC out of the box.  If the variable was changed and you know the decoder model, any DCC user could easily turn it back on.

There can be some issues running a DCC engine on DC, the most noticeable is poor low (switching) speed performance, as it takes a certain voltage for the decoder to recognize that the power is DC.  Also DCC sound engine don't always speed match well with DCC non-sound engines due to the power requirements of the sound chip.

As for switching a DCC engine back to DC, it can be done but you'd need the OEM light board for that specific locomotive, which you'd probably have to get from the manufacturer.

Tim

[jagged ben]

If you were to purchase the eBay set you should be prepared to deal with some combination of the following (if the listing details don't supply relevant info):

To change them back to DC:

-  If the locos were not originally DCC ready mechanisms, changing them back may require a few hours time with a soldering iron and a fine hand
-  If the locos were originally DC with DCC ready mechanisms, it would be relatively easy to change them back to DC if you have ever taken apart a N scale locomotive and put it back together, but you'd want to obtain original DC lightboards, which you might want to check availability on
-  You didn't confirm the brand.  If they are BLI they may be quite difficult to work with compared to Kato or Intermountain.

If you want to run them with the decoders and possibly the sound:

-  Be aware that some DC power packs do not provide clean enough power for some decoders.  I have a couple simple MRC Tech III packs in my possession, and Digitrax decoders in particular do not work with them.  (The analog mode basically pulses on and off.)  Meanwhile NCE decoders work fine.  So it depends on details.  If you can turn off any pulse mode on your pack you may have better luck, but I think you won't know until you try.

- You will likely be frustrated if you don't have access to a DCC system (say, a friend's) from time to time in case you need to turn on analog mode when you receive the locos, or otherwise troubleshoot or reset the decoders.

[rodsup9000]

This is probably the set he is talking about.

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/KATO-SANTA-FE-F7-40-ABBBA-ATSF-WAR-BONNET-DCC-SOUND-BOTH-A-UNITS/124126872708?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D91f3211cda0842aeaf55620fd09a8647%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D124126872708%26itm%3D124126872708%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A21ff09a0-6fd9-11ea-a42f-74dbd180cd8c%7Cparentrq%3A19fc46371710a860d2d1bddbfffe8faa%7Ciid%3A1


They appear to be DCC ready and have MRC decoders 

[CRL]

You could find out if the original analog boards are included, or are available elsewhere.

[Point353]

I've been desperately looking for some n-scale f units in the warbonnet paint scheme after missing out on the most recent Kato release.
My layout is currently DC with an MRC Tech II 2800 dual cab throttle.
I one day plan to convert to DCC, and I know some people's solution might be to recommend a switch, but DCC is not feasible for me at the moment.

If you want the DC version of those locos:
https://lombardhobby.com/kato-n-176-2121-dcc-ready-emd-f7a-dual-headlight-version-at-sf-santa-fe-warbonnet-300/
https://lombardhobby.com/kato-n-176-2211-dcc-ready-diesel-locomotive-emd-f7b-at-sf-santa-fe-warbonnet/
https://hogtrainz.com/NKATOSUPERCHIEF.htm

[Steveruger45]

Great find @Point353.    @TMatt253, if it was me I would go for those new locos at Lombards and save myself the hassle of the reverse conversion you need.  I have bought from them before and had no issues with them. Same with hogs trains too.

[TMatt253]

Wow, thank you for the multitude of replies. Yes, that set was the one I was referring to from eBay.

And thank you for the link to Lombard Hobbies, I was not aware of their website, and they have a nice amount of the locomotives in stock at a very good price. It appears that seems to be the more sensible option to pursue these locos rather than taking a chance on the pre-owned DCC versions.

[Maletrain]

Be aware that Lombard Hobbies is shutting down its shipping until it is allowed to reopen as a "non-essential" store. Here is the text of the e-mail they sent to me:

Important Announcement
 
Dear Fellow Modelers,

As of 3/21/2020 at 5:00 pm CST and tentatively ending on 4/7/2020, the State of Illinois will be implementing a “Stay at Home” or “Shelter in Place” policy for all nonessential businesses.  As such Lombard Hobbies retail store will be closed.  Our online website will continue to be available 24/7 with any inquiries being answered remotely via email or phone during our normal business hours.  Shipping will be determined by availability of UPS, USPS and other factors which at this time remains questionable and a fluid situation.  As such orders will likely be processed and shipped upon return to work in April or otherwise determined by governmental directives.

Any orders placed by 10:00 am CST Saturday, 3/21/2020 will be packed and shipped out immediately.

It is our humble pleasure to serve our industry and look forward to when we can all return to a normal world-wide environment.  Know that we greatly appreciate all the wonderful customers we have and it’s our sincerest hope that all will weather this epic crisis and come out healthy and financially sound. For the time being, ALL of us here at Lombard Hobbies suggest to you to

stay at home, stay safe and what we call…

“Hobby In Place”

But, I do recommend them.

[TMatt253]

Be aware that Lombard Hobbies is shutting down its shipping until it is allowed to reopen as a "non-essential" store. Here is the text of the e-mail they sent to me:



But, I do recommend them.

Thanks for that piece of information. These are interesting times we are in to say the least. That being said I'm in no rush, and for those prices I have no problem waiting longer until whenever they are open again. Happy to have been directed to Lombard.

Trevor

[CBQ Fan]

I have had good luck with Lombard Hobbies.

[Wolf N Works]

I will second that, all my dealings with them have been great.

One other option, if you do get the set with DCC is to offer the mech ups to some one that may be planning on going to DCC. Might be a long shot just putting extra options out there. All really depends on how fast you plan to use them. Even though they are DCC they should run on DC. At least all the ones I have have.

[peteski]

I see possible problem in that DCC set.  It was mentioned that only "some" of the ABBA set are equipped with DCC sound (so I assume others have non-sound decoders).  Running them together on DC will be impossible.  Even if the DCC throttle plays well with the decoders (some pulse throttles do not work well with certain decoders), the speed of the sound and  non-sound decoders in DC will be *WAY* off.

Non-sound decoders have motor speed range fairly well matched with DC throttle. That is to say that the loco will likely start moving at about 3-4V DC, and run at almost full speed at 12V.

Sound decoders however need much higher DC voltage to start powering the motor. That is because the sound decoder microprocessor, and all the sound circuitry needs much higher voltage just to initialize.  Often then need 8V or higher just to start moving.   Then at 12V DC they might or might not even achieve full speed.  So you only have limited throttle speed control range to run the sound decoders on DC. The loco likely won't start moving 'til you crank the speed control knob about half way up.  If the non sound loco is on the same track, at half throttle it will be already running at a good clip.  So, as you can see, this is not going to work.

[Point353]

That being said I'm in no rush, and for those prices I have no problem waiting longer until whenever they are open again. Happy to have been directed to Lombard.

While Lombard is not presently shipping, orders are still being accepted.
Given that availability of these locos seems relatively scarce, you might want to place an order now, rather than later.
It looks like someone bought two of the B-units since I first posted the link to Lombard.

Another option would be to simply wait for the next production run, which is due out sometime this summer.
https://www.katousa.com/N/F7/index.html