Best Of The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread

[u18b]

A Few More Details

There were only a few more details left.

I think I forgot to mention that since I had made such a fantastic light in the rear, I now had to go back and improve the headlight by placing an LED in the front as well.

The light leak may be worse now.  I'm debating redoing the light by adding a tube like I did on the tender.




I made some adjustments to the power reverse linkage.
OMI has a casting which encompasses that corner of the cab floor, as well as some kind of air regulator (probably for the power reverse) and a brace.

Here is the stock part.

 


That brace is too long.

Here is a photo of what it should look like.  As you can see here, the brace should be shorter.

 

So I trimmed the brace, cut a notch in it and adjusted the linkages so that they were approximately touching.   They can’t be allowed to obstruct one another because the brace is attached to the removable shell while the linkage is part of the frame detailing.    But they are close enough that they look like they go together.

The brace is still a little long, but it looks much better than before.




On the left side, there is a drain pipe.  Once again, OMI made a model that resembles the prototype as-delivered from LIMA.


It’s not a big deal, but there are two minor problems.  The bottom end should be curved and bent to drain INSIDE the frame.  The Chaffee folks must have wanted the water to drain inside the tracks instead of outside.

Second, this pipe on the model was installed slightly askew.   The illusion is that this is one pipe coming down from up on the boiler.   By the ends not matching, it spoils that effect.

   


So I replaced it with a longer pipe- bent closer to the prototype- and better matching the pipe above the sill.




I debated a long time about windows.
Usually they were open.

I practiced removing one of the window posts in order to simulate the rear window being pushed forward.

With such a large opening, I’d probably need to add the stereotypical locomotive crew.   

   


But with a loco that is running visually BOTH directions and a lot of it backwards- I think it might look strange for the engineer to be pointed the wrong direction.

Most of our locos almost always point forward (if in the lead) and a backwards move is occasional and short.

So in this case….  I could not bring myself to do open the windows.   I’ll leave them closed.

[Angus Shops]

DKS would animate the crew so they point in the right direction. Seems simple enough…

[u18b]

A Few More Details- cont.


I already described adding the sanding control rod.   But my earlier photo did not give a good view.  The handrail was blocking- so here is a better shot.




When I look at this photo below…. I can’t stand it.

The Korean manufacturer placed a modern crook in the end of the cut bar- making it look not only modern, but also ridiculously HUGE.  That handhold is probably 3 or 4 N scale feet!

It has to go.




So I flattened out the wire and trimmed it.  It looks much more like the prototype now.

Also, since I placed shorter couplers for the purpose of better pushing cars uphill on a curve, I shortened the lift bar over the coupler.



I repeated the procedure on the rear.



Because the locomotive will be black, I created some hybrid couplers.  I installed brown couplers inside of a black coupler box.



   


And lastly, we need to get power to the rear headlight housing.
The power line conduit runs from the headlight...



Around the rim of the roof….. (though it’s hard to see here)
 

Through the wall and then across and down to the frame in the front.

 


Well, I better stop before I hit the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Because of the increased light leak by doing away with the fiber optics and going with a tiny LED, I’m debating redoing the front headlight by adding a tube the way I did on the tender light.

The last lingering issue is to try to improve gear wear.  I’ll let you know when the gears arrive form Poland.

And then on to painting.

[u18b]

Well, Just a Little More

There were two rods or pipes up on the roof that I had skipped earlier.

This is because they involve the boxy casting in front of the cab which would be a challenge to drill through.

However……  when I started working on Shay #1 (more on that later) I noticed a very different look on a detail which drew my attention to something that is minor but ugly on Shay #3, the Resurrected Shay.

Look at this photo of the Resurrected Shay #3.

Remember, I’m not a steam guy, so my eye doesn’t immediately see things that you steamheads do.



Because of its length and position, I assumed that this small tube or pipe was supposed to be something that was running through the body shell of the Shay.

But that is not the case.  That little pipe or projection is much smaller on another  brass Shay.

So NOW I see that this is the actuating lever for the whistle.
Thus on this model, that lever is absurdly too long.

I had to trim it.

That’s when I decided to go ahead and try to drill that hole and run the control rod to it (it’s not a rope, it’s a rod).

I had to angle the bit, but I was able to drill a hole.  I then slid the control rod into the hole and soldered the other end to the whistle lever. 

It looks much better now.

While I was “up there”,  “in for a penny, in for a pound.”

I went ahead and soldered a small wire for the steam pipe that runs to the generator.   It was impossible to drill a hole for that because there is no room to work.

I did make a little divot in the box.  Careful soldering holding with tweezers got it in place.





Lastly, I dreaded it, but I knew I would not be content until I went back and re-did the front headlight in order to address the light leak.

With fiber optics, the light leak was not as much a problem since the light pipe could simply be painted black.

But since I installed an LED, the light leak was now much worse.

So I heated up the headlight casting using heat sinks on those little number boards I had added.

Yep.  The number boards came off- as I feared.  Oh well.

I drilled out the headlight so a tube would fit.  I drilled out the small tube to open it up for an LED.

I then drilled out the hole in the roof of the smoke box.

I then soldered all of this in place- leaving the tube long touching the floor of the boiler.





What I was worried about was if I had cut the tube to the proper length, and then heated it all up for solder- the tube might drop out.  This way it stayed put.

(by the way, yes the tube is a bit crooked- but that didn’t matter.  The headlight itself is straight.)

Then, AFTER all was soldered, I used a motor tool to cut off the tube about at the red line.

I don’t have a photo, but I had to drill a hole on the BOTTOM of the smoke box directly under the headlight so I could run a drill bit all the way up the tube since it got clogged  in the mounting process.

Once that was done, an 0402 pre-wired LED would fit in there easily.

I then had to mount the number boards again- and it was just as hard as last time.

But in the end, I now have a great LED light… and no light leak at all.

Mission accomplished.

[u18b]

Sound Test Revisited

I’ve been doing a sound test along the construction process.

Your ears can tell you subjectively that something is pleasing or bad…. But I like hard comparative numbers.

So I’ve been measuring the decibels at various stages.

I should have said something earlier, though it should be obvious.

I’m recording the decibel level  at the track about one inch away from the Shay.   But that is NOT what your ear hears since it is three feet away.

But by measuring from the same spot in the same way with the same devices…. I now have a way to consistently compare.

When I first got the Shay running, the decibel rate at the track was upper 70s and lower 80s (I’m wishing I had gotten a video).     It was awful!  Especially to my ears three feet away!

Then I got it down to 69 db.  Which was loud but more tolerable.  (previously posted)

Then I installed a coreless motor with more tinkering and got it down to 66 db.  (previously posted)

Remember that a 3 db drop is a 50% reduction in sound.

Well, after Beardenizing it and making a couple of more adjustments…. Drum roll…. I got to to a whopping 58 db- which is over a 75% drop from 66 db. 

(new video)

At normal ear level three or so feet away, you can barely hear it.

This rebuilt Shay is now quieter than the other two.

It has been very satisfying to get to this point.

When I change the gear configuration, it will be interesting to see any differences.
 

[glakedylan]

kudos! great work, Ron....have really enjoyed following along with this project and other ones in the past.


sincerely
Gary

[u18b]

Thanks Gary.

We still have a ways to go.

I'm currently waiting on the gears from Poland.  So while I'm waiting, I've started working on Shay #1.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I just caught up on the cut levers.

Since this is going to be in "captive service" have you thought about going with True Scale couplers?

[u18b]

I just caught up on the cut levers.

Since this is going to be in "captive service" have you thought about going with True Scale couplers?

I thought about it a little.  No final decisions at present.

Here is the challenge I see (even though I've never used them yet).

They are very small.

This layout will obviously have several changes in grade.   My concern is that a coupler on one grade will slip out from the car on the other grade.
I know you have to have grade transitions, but I'm already seeing couplers slide against one another with the setup I'm using.

I also have not fully processed in my mind if I'm going to be using Massive Hand Power to do manual uncoupling or if I'm going to use magnetic remote uncoupling.   
I hate the slinky effect, so I don't want MT couplers throughout.

I probably won't know until @chessie system fan comes over and we draw out the layout I have brewing in my mind and I can actually see where I'm going to stand and how my reach will be.

[u18b]

Still Learning

While I’m paused from working on Resurrection Shay #3, I’m turning my attention now to Shay #1.

I had spent probably 100 hours working on this Shay and I got it to run wonderfully.  I’ve had this Shay for many years.

However, I was running it recently and it had a potentially catastrophic failure.  The solder joints at the firebox broke all loose.  It was going to take a lot of work to fix it.

The reason it broke loose was because my Wiseman Kit did not come with the proper screw for the worm gear up top.  It had no shoulder so there was no stop for the screw.

I wish years ago I knew to drill out the hole to the gear larger and add a sleeve in there.

But instead, I just adapted as best as  I could.  I inserted some card stock inside the firebox and the screw bottomed out on it.

But years later, the pressure from this jury rigging finally caused the solder joints to pops loose.

Therefore, I’ve started rebuilding #1.   I’m going to do a frame transplant, just as before, now that I know how to do it.

Here is Shay #1.

 

I’m now astounded at all the problems with this Shay.
I think Wiseman did a great job, but my skills and knowledge have enabled me to do better.

In the photo above, you can see (green arrow) the power reverse is too low (Overland error we discussed earlier).  This means you have to add washers between the frame and the truck- which jacks up the frame.

But this change caused problems.  I always hated how the lineshafts were now so terribly out of alignment (red arrow).

But another problem is retaining the trucks.  I always had a problem dealing with the truck retaining screw (once again- no shoulder.  I resorted to adding superglue to the thread from the top side).

What I know now, is that Overland designed the trucks to be retained by a shouldered screw and be sprung.

 

And so I began the transplant.

And then I discovered a NEW problem. 

The rear truck would not pivot!
Inspection revealed that sideframe under the cab hit the frame.

 

The reason I never noticed this before was because Shay #1 was jacked up with washers and so the truck passed under the frame.  Now without the washers, it was an obstruction.

Looking at my other Shays, I see that you have to trim the projection on the truck.

In the photo below, it’s the one on top of the truck at the bottom left of the pic.

 


Then I pulled the crankshaft.
What I saw shocked me.

First, the shaft is thin- which allows a lot of play in the main bearing slots in the frame.

But secondly, for crying out loud, look at how crooked the main drive gear is.



The more I learn, the more amazed I am that I got this Shay to run as well as it did given all the problems it had.

[u18b]

So I started working on Shay #1.  Frame transplant.

I won’t go into near as much detail unless it involves something new.

I reinforced the solder joints.  I did much more this time.

That washer on top of the bolster is to restrict the truck pivot.



Because the firebox broke loose on my old Shay, I was NOT going to allow that to happen again.

So I added solder to hold it (red).
And I strengthened the joint behind the cylinder frame (blue).



Extra solder:
Firebox- red.
Cylinder castings – yellow
And then, because when the trucks are sitting with no washers (as designed), the wheels are awfully close to the frame.   I decided to provide some extra clearance (blue).  Looks ugly, but it is underside.



I noticed that all this extra soldering of joints made this frame MUCH more rigid.  There is no flexing at all.

Since I’m starting over with this Shay #1, I took greater care with the cylinder mounting. 
The reason this is important is for superdetailing later.   There is a pipe or control rod that runs from the side of the cylinders to the cab side.

I could not add that detail on Resurrected Shay #3 because the cylinders stuck out too far and it was too late to correct it.



As I may superdetail this one as well, I studied that tight area to the right of the cylinders and discovered a problem.

While this is a great scale model, a few details have not been just right.

I studies the placement of the air pump with reference to the large steam pipe behind it and stepped walkway above.



This frame had the parts in a non-perfect placement.

Start with the red arrows as reference.  They are correct.
If you start there, you can see that the steam pipe connection  (blue) is too far left.  Thus the air pump is too far left as well (purple).



So I removed the air pump and the pipe and re positioned them.   You can see that I moved the air pump bracket about 2 mm right.



This all now looks closer to prototype AND gives me more room for the tumbling shaft linkage later.

[u18b]

Crankshaft- The Ultimate Revision

SPOILER ALERT- Just skip this if you only like happy endings.  Failure ahead!

(I’ve been sick and had to miss work.  So I rested by modeling!)

I decided to make a third revision to the crankshaft.

I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about those connecting rods (piston rods) going up and down.

I’ve concluded the number one cause for prototypical style  crankshaft failure is actually the connecting rods themselves.  They eat the small brass connection in the casting and eventually the crankshaft fails and breaks at that spot.

As you can see in this shot of broken pieces.  And you can see the groove worn on the one that is not broken yet.





But what if we could correct that wear.

I determined I would try to add steel to the parts to prevent wear.  The steel in the wormshaft is soft and can take solder.

It will be a labor intensive process, but I think it can work.


Counterweight.  Need two.



Start drilling a new hole right over the old shaft in the casting.  I’m drilling a 1 mm hole.



You know you have pretty good centering when the old shaft casting bulges.







I didn’t get my holes as perfectly aligned in this one.  But I think it will be OK.



The casting has had the steel shaft inserted and all soldered.



All three pieces are adapted with steel shafts.



The bands were added to the counterweights.



Valve lifter assemblies built.



Gear installed on new shaft.
Then the black crank piece is added.  I then cut little nibs of solder and dropped them between and heated to lock them to the brass shaft.



I cut out the casting sprue on the counter weight so I could solder.



I flattened some solder…



I added the spacer, eccentric bearing and counterweight.   I then heated the crankshaft and put some of the skinny solder in the middle of the counterweight.



OK.  The whole crankshaft assembly is finished and tested in the loco.



Now for the scary part.   It took hours and hours to get to this moment.
Time to cut the big 3/64” shaft out of the middle of the castings.

Very tedious, and my hands are not as sure as they were when young.   But the final result does look pretty good.

We now have a zig-zaggy crankshaft.  And by waiting to cut the big shaft until about last, all should be straight and true.



I installed the piston rods.
Ready to install this assembly.

This assembly has it all: correct counterweights on ends, with bands on the counterweights, zig-zaggy with connecting rods.



Unfortunately, it did not take long for the whole thing to fail.

One thing went wrong quickly- I think the middle rocker on the valve assembly hit the drive gear up top (now I know why it is a good practice to add a washer under that gear- will do this in the future to raise it up).

That catch on the gear caused a bind which was sufficient to break the solder joint on the steel pin in the crankshaft.

See the red arrows don’t match- the piece has broken.



What I find most interesting is that the failure-- even with the stronger setup- was exactly where the brass casting always fails.   That spot (blue arrow) must get a lot of stress.

So a lot of time lost- but I enjoyed the challenge.
The moral is that the straight 3/64” shaft is going to be the most reliable solution for this model.

And this is especially true for me as I plan to torture this model on steep grades.

Now time to start over with another crankshaft build.

[Chris333]

What if you left the center shaft inside the middle crank?

[u18b]

What if you left the center shaft inside the middle crank?

Well, you wouldn't have a connecting rod going up and down there.
The question then would become how long would it take the counterweight pieces to fail?

I've already disassembled this and rebuild the crankshaft for Shay #1, so what you see pictured here is gone..  I had extras of most of the parts, except the steel main drive gear.  I had to have that.

[peteski]

Yes, there is a lot of stress on the part of the crankshaft that breaks.  Why? because the crankshaft only has 2 "main bearings". At least that is the term used for automotive engine crankshafts.  A 4-cylinder automotive engine can have either 3 or 5 main bearings supporting the crankshaft. The one with more main bearings is more stable of course.

This 3-cylinder crankshaft would be most stable with 4 main bearings, but it only has the ones on the ends. There is a lot of force from the driven gear applied to the off-center part that breaks.