Best Of The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread

[u18b]

Yes, Christian,
painting is daunting to me too.

I'll try and document some of what I do.

But before painting.... i have a bit more detailing to add to the loco.

[ChristianJDavis1]

Yes, the coupler is just a little low.  I plan to place a washer between the tender and the truck to lift the whole tender a fraction.

But that caboose coupler is actually too high.  So the two don't really go together.  The caboose exaggerates the marginally low coupler.

Only thing I would caution with that, besides making the tender sit a little too high, is on my first run I did that and it pulled the engine up with it, causing the middle truck to derail. In it's defense, I used just an MT washer, which may have been a little thick. This was done to try and keep the steps on the tender from intermittently contacting the railhead and causing a short.

[johnb]

Loving this thread.

[mmagliaro]

I think it runs magnificently!   So much of the excitement of seeing a steam locomotive is being able to watch all the moving parts on the outside, and a Shay, well... lots of moving parts!  Woo hoo.    Beautiful work, sir!

[peteski]

Yes, it runs and sounds excellent!
It was sad to see that Ron had a bad experience with the ESU decoder, but  the problem was resolved. These are great decoders, but because they are so highly configurable, sometimes things might not go as planned. But in the end everything worked out well.

[u18b]

I have no idea why my first attempt failed (actually, I think it was my old computer). And these decoders are designed to be written to and experimented with. 

The irony, is that I had what I needed with the Soo Line Mikado file. 
In my newbie-ness, I failed to know the importance of clicking on the Information tab of the decoder.
In that text, it TELLS you of some different whistles on the decoder already with that file.

And sure enough, the whistle I needed was already there. 
I didn’t need to change it out. 

[peteski]

I have no idea why my first attempt failed (actually, I think it was my old computer). And these decoders are designed to be written to and experimented with. 

The irony, is that I had what I needed with the Soo Line Mikado file. 
In my newbie-ness, I failed to know the importance of clicking on the Information tab of the decoder.
In that text, it TELLS you of some different whistles on the decoder already with that file.

And sure enough, the whistle I needed was already there. 
I didn’t need to change it out.

Yes, I believe it was (unintentonally) self-induced problem. I would consider it a learning experience.  After all, you jumped from zero DCC sound decoder experience right into one of the most complex-sound decoders out  there.    In an ideal world, the program that interfaces with the decoder should not allow for what happened to occur, but nothing is perfect.

[u18b]

Here is my replaced ESU micro v5 58823 sound decoder.
I cut the purple and green function wires off since I don't need them.  Just used a blade through the shrink wrap.


This is a great decoder.... but I have to admit, I hate the wiring harness for this application.  The wiring harness is a clip on board- and as you can see here, it almost doubles the thickness of the decoder.  I wish ESU made a plain old hard-wired decoder that was thinner.


Now here is the original decoder I killed.  Notice the shrink wrap is inadequate for the tight spaces I have.  I had to add tape to protect the decoder.


Well, when I returned the damaged one, I pointed that out to ESU.   They must have listened, because the replacement is much better.



I made my own circuitboard since I wanted the decoder to be modular for easier disassembly.  Plugs are better than unsoldering/resoldering.
This is thin copper board.  I used a motor tool with tiny bit to cut the channels.
Not as clean as you guys that etch your own boards, but it works.



Here are where the TCS micro sockets go.  #1 and 2 go to the decoder.  #3 to the speaker.  #4 to the forward LED assembly.



And here is the board installed.  It is on top of and superglued to a thin brass sheet.  That sheet is soldered to the motor housing.  So now, when I remove the motor, the board comes with it.
The red arrows are pointing to the gap, or channel, I cut.  this is just wide enough for the decoder wires to slide by when I insert or remove the decoder.



And here is the assembly.  The decoder has two plugs that go into sockets on the board.   The big 6 pin plug and then the 2-pin speaker plug.
The socket with the green and purple wire goes to the speaker.  Obviously, I could have gone directly from the decoder to the speaker, but I felt these sockets were more secure.
Notice in the bottom right, I kept the yellow function wire in case I want to add a reverse light one day.  I doubt I will, but it's there in case I change my mind.


Here is the whole Shay less shell and tender.
The big socket left goes to the front headlight assembly.  The socket is 4 pin even though I only need 2- but 4 is more secure since that socket gets a lot of stress from shell removal and re-assembly.   I use the center 2 pins.
Note the polarity mark, with matching marks on socket and plug.


It's a tight fit, but I managed to shoe-horn it all in there.

[u18b]

Oh.... and the 6-pin socket is wired in the typical reversible way.
Meaning track is the outer 2.
then next the motor gray and orange.
I chose the inner 2 for the LED function wires.

By following this standard practice, if I insert the plug backwards, there is no harm done.  The loco will run backwards from expected and the headlight won't work, but nothing is damaged.

[u18b]

And lastly, you need an analog plug for trouble shooting and testing.

Here is the plug.  It just has 2 pads for two plugs.  The pins of each plug are soldered together.


And here it is installed.

[peteski]

As usual, nice job (and documentation) Ron!

And pretty much all of us in N scale agree that ESU really effed-up N scalers when they produced the V5 decoder with only Next18 connector on-board.  Then they kludged the wire leads by adding the dongle with wires. I will still use v4 decoders for as long as I can (there is nothing really wrong with them - the new features are not *THAT* important, especially in steam locos.

[sschaer]

hello ron

as soon as i find the time to work on one of my shays, i will contribute to your shay threads. i now have a 6x10 and a 7x10mm motor. not sure yet which i will install. first have to figure out how to mount it. will post pics as soon as there's some progress.



have fun
sandro

[u18b]

Sandro,

My 7x10 fit almost perfectly inside a stock K&S brass tube.

Check earlier in my thread for how I mounted it.

If your Shay does not have a motor mount, you could build one pretty easy.

Looking forward to seeing your work.

[u18b]

This thread has been about everything related to the brass Overland Western Maryland Shay- my favorite model. 

My hope was that this thread would be a permanent reference work for this model here on The Railwire.
Hopefully, because of this thread, someone may be able to repair or upgrade their Shay in the future.

With that in mind, the next part of this thread should (hopefully) prove helpful (or at least interesting).

A while back, I acquired another 2nd version Shay. 
The motor was not completely installed- which means the loco probably did not come directly from OMI – though it did have an original little Sagami motor.

The design is clearly second version and it may have been a Wiseman kit which someone attempted to assemble- who knows.

Sadly, this model was dead and in pretty rough shape.  I bought it knowing most of its damage and knew it was not running.  I bought it for a fair price for the parts so that I could have backup parts for my other two Shays if I ever needed to make improvements to them.  (Keith Wiseman has a few Shay spare parts left, but a LOT of the critical parts are forever gone).

However, I think there’s a *chance* I might be able to resurrect this broken Shay- even if it might be a slim chance.   

So to be honest, I only have restrained hopes of getting it running because this is a complex locomotive.  A lot of things have to be just right for this thing to run well- and a lot CAN go wrong with the delicate parts.

And as I received it…. This model had a LOT of damage. 




Solder joints were broken in the frame.  In particular, the front pilot was completely broken loose on the right side.
There was a good deal of corrosion.
The drive train was completely seized.  Nothing would move.
This was because: The crankshaft was broken.
And worse still…. lower worm was all rusty as well as the main drive gear.  In fact, they looked fused together by rust.  These parts were a complete loss.



A lot of trim metal was bent on the underside of the driveshaft.
The hole for the cab screw was enlarged really BIG.   
While most of the parts were there, a few were missing.
It had a motor, but the rear motor shaft was not cut off so the shell could not be secured.

The piston/power assemblies were installed crooked- which leads me to believe this may have been a Wiseman kit that started with only parts.  One cylinder in particular is badly twisted.

And worst of all, the front frame was bent badly on the left side.  This was disastrous.  I knew that even if I could bend it back, the fine detail would look awful.  It would always look like it had been bent.  There would be no way to get the kinks out.



On the good side, except for some corrosion, the body shell was in good shape.  The generator steam tube was broken off- but that almost always happens.  You hardly ever see a WM Shay with one in tact.

Thankfully, I happen to have a spare frame and the other spare parts this Shay is missing.   

I knew this model would need:
1.  a frame transplant (a big task)
2.  a brand new crankshaft- rebuilt from scratch (a possibly even bigger task)
3.  I would have to get the motor mount off the old frame and install it in the new.

To be honest, this whole project is a rather daunting task.  But I have three things in my favor.  First, I have two other 2nd version/Wiseman Shays with which to compare notes.  Here is my old Shay as a pattern.



Second, I’ve spent a LOT of time working on those Shays- as partially documented in this thread.    It would not be an exaggeration to say that I have spent almost 100 hours on each of my other two Shays.

Third, I have a resistance soldering station- which is a great tool and necessary for a repair/reconstruction project in brass like this.
So I’m ready to give this rebuild a try.

One of my Shays needs some work on the drive train area- but I have always been nervous about working on it.  It runs great now.  It runs whisper quiet (a VERY rare thing) and I’d hate to ruin it.  Would I be able to fix it?

And more importantly, my Shay with sound (earlier in this thread) has an original crankshaft.  These are notorious for failing. If (when) it fails one day, will I be able to repair it?

So with this newly acquired third Shay, I figured I can take the plunge now and give the repair a try.   If I failed, then I would still have all these back up parts I originally invested in with this broken Shay- and at worst, I would have lost a lot of time.   

If I succeed, then I would have another running Shay- but more importantly, succeed or fail, I would have gained experience for working on repairing/improving my other two.  And as I said originally, if this is all a bust and I can’t repair this Shay, at least I’ve invested in some spare parts I may need one day.

So I invite you to join me as I dive deep in the guts of this Shay and seek to rebuild it.  It will probably be a big project.

[randgust]

Wow, and I thought my Jamco Junker 4-6-2 that did a death-dive onto a concrete floor and was left to rot as a corroded mess and sold for $50 was a project.

But honestly, looking at the price of N brass now on the auction site, if you can find one to repair, and you can do it, it's a pretty solid plan even when it looks rather intimidating.

With the Jamco, it was a matter of stripping everything down as far as it would go and working from the wheels up to repair & renew.   The only near game-ending thing I hit with it was having to make new crosshead guides from scratch, but it worked.

I think at this point you certainly know what you're up against and have the skills, so I want to watch this one for technique & tools as you do a great job of photography and documenting.   

Your original try on the GE 44-tonner with the Kato Critter mech is what got me into this level, you know.

I made an abortive run at making a spinning crank on my 25-ton Class B shay, made the crank, but gave up powering it back from the wheels.  But I did make a crank that would actually freely spin and push rods up and down.   I do think it's possible to scratchbuild a crank out of brass.