Best Of The Overland/Wiseman brass Western Maryland Shay thread

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Yeah.  I love his engine house. 

All of this is leading to a Chaffee Branch in my future.
 

I think, by this point, you almost have to.

[u18b]

Yep.
I recently informed Aaron @chessie system fan  that when the day comes to build the layout, that a change has been made to the plans we drew up previously.

[u18b]

Superdetailing:  Tumbling shaft
Part 1

There is a less visible, but yet important detail missing from this model.    It may not be very visible from 3 feet, but is very visible in photos.

It’s called the tumbling shaft.  This shaft appears to be part of the reversing system.

On many/most Shays, this horizontal bar runs in front of the cylinder bracing.    As seen here:

https://trainfanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/1__Mount_Emily_Shay__1_Steam_Locomotive_Prineville_Oregon_on_4th_of_July_2017_-_YouTube-735x413.png

But on the Big Six Shay, the tumbling shaft is mounted behind the cylinders.

On the prototype, the shaft runs from the power reverse linkage all the way to the front cylinder.  The shaft then has three arms which connect to the rockers on the side of the cylinders.

But it’s dark back there and I really needed some help to see exactly what was going on with this part.

I found the most helpful information from people who will help you build a working large scale live steam operating Shay (if you have deep pockets).

Here are some helpful resources:

http://www.locogear.com/Catalog2008.pdf

http://www.plan-ahead-designs.com/wm6.html

http://www.plan-ahead-designs.com/summaries/WM6PLANSET1STEAMENGINE.pdf

I could see the shaft, but it was these plans that helped me see those little arms that interface with the rockers.

I thought and planned a LOT about those little arms.  It was NOT possible to install a little arm to the middle cylinder of course.

It was possible on the back cylinder near the cab because there's a good deal of room to work.

But there was just not enough room between the front rocker and the air pump.

And besides, it would have been a tiny detail, so I decided to leave it off.  The shaft itself is large enough- and visible.

Now, this shaft would intersect the vertical worm shaft in the cylinders, so I had to make it in two pieces.

In order to mount it to the back of the cylinder support, which has a channeled shape, I needed some extra thickness to go into the channel.  So I cut a small section of tubing and placed it over the shaft and soldered it on.  This tiny bit of tubing would fit into the channel of the cylinder brace on the back side.



 


It’s a fuzzy photo, but you can see the resistance soldering tweezers holding the rod.  The rod gets hot and then I can touch the back of the cylinder to make the solder adhere and hold the rod.

 


In this photo, the front half is mounted.   I could have gotten it a little closer to the worm shaft , but it will be very dark and black in there- so I moved on.

Of course, I tried hard to keep the shaft level while soldering.  In fact, this was the most important thing.   This detail would have looked ugly if a photo clearly showed the shafts were not level and not level with each other.

 

[randgust]

For those of you (like me) that know there must have been just quite the branch to justify WM having this thing....

Well, yeah.   Here you go.   Three miles of some of the toughest railroad you'll ever see in your life.  Holy crap.

https://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/trackpdfs/WMTC1942CHAF.pdf

If I'm reading that right, I see a 23-degree curve on a 9.1% grade. about halfway up.

And to answer...where was that?    Look on the Cumberland-Elkins main, Chafee to Vindex.
https://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/pics/WMMap.gif

I've seen 6 on the Cass in the past, but never figured out WHY there was such a monster Shay....Oh, now I get it.   That had to be a real pucker operation bringing loads downhill even, as I've seen Shay's slide on the Whittaker hill with a relatively light train.

[Missaberoad]

I would not like to be the guy that has to tie down cars in that yard at the top of the hill... 
We have a yard on a 2.2% grade and its bad enough hiking up tying on handbrake...

I also love how every track including the main has a derail...

[u18b]

For those of you (like me) that know there must have been just quite the branch to justify WM having this thing....

Well, yeah.   Here you go.   Three miles of some of the toughest railroad you'll ever see in your life.  Holy crap.

https://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/trackpdfs/WMTC1942CHAF.pdf

If I'm reading that right, I see a 23-degree curve on a 9.1% grade. about halfway up.

And to answer...where was that?    Look on the Cumberland-Elkins main, Chafee to Vindex.
https://www.alphabetroute.com/wm/pics/WMMap.gif

I've seen 6 on the Cass in the past, but never figured out WHY there was such a monster Shay....Oh, now I get it.   That had to be a real pucker operation bringing loads downhill even, as I've seen Shay's slide on the Whittaker hill with a relatively light train.

Yep.  It's honestly astonishing. 

Even this huge Shay could only safely move 6 loaded cars on that huge grade.

Before the Big Six, they were relying on a big 4-truck Shay #5. but it was not reliable.  You would think 4 trucks would be great for traction.  But in reality, when the Shay was running in reverse, pushing loaded cars uphill, the front truck on the tender would twist and have a tendency to ride over the railhead and derail.

And when Shay #5 was down for any reason, the back up Shay was limited to only moving about 2 or 3 cars at a time.

The Manor mine could produce about eleven 55-ton cars a day.  A smaller mine about halfway up only produced only 2 or 3 cars.
So if you can only move about 2 or three loaded cars at a time, that's a LOT of trips up and down this mountain.

The Big Six cut those trips in half.

By the way, the short line was only 3.5 miles long- but wow, what a run.

[wm3798]

Sadly it went the way of all things...  Dust to dust.

Even the engine house was sold off.

It was all pretty simple, though, and I have N scale drawings for the company housing...

Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Yep.  It's honestly astonishing. 

Even this huge Shay could only safely move 6 loaded cars on that huge grade.

Before the Big Six, they were relying on a big 4-truck Shay #5. but it was not reliable.  You would think 4 trucks would be great for traction.  But in reality, when the Shay was running in reverse, pushing loaded cars uphill, the front truck on the tender would twist and have a tendency to ride over the railhead and derail.

And when Shay #5 was down for any reason, the back up Shay was limited to only moving about 2 or 3 cars at a time.

The Manor mine could produce about eleven 55-ton cars a day.  A smaller mine about halfway up only produced only 2 or 3 cars.
So if you can only move about 2 or three loaded cars at a time, that's a LOT of trips up and down this mountain.

The Big Six cut those trips in half.

By the way, the short line was only 3.5 miles long- but wow, what a run.

It's funny the things that people used to do to make money before the era of spreadsheets that could tell you "this isn't a great idea".
Or even weirder to think that it did make money.

[Chris333]

So was this steep branch the line up "Three Forks Run" ?

[u18b]

So was this steep branch the line up "Three Forks Run" ?

Yes.  That's correct.  Three Forks referring to the stream it crossed.

It occurs to me (even though I have not read this anywhere) that gravity may have provided switching capabilities at the mine.

If more than one car had to move under the coal chute, then the lower car would be loaded first.
And then the brakes eased off, the cars inch downhill, and lock the brakes again when the next empty is where it needs to be.

[Chris333]

Just because I had to see what I was missing. This is 1946
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HPHTcthC6paGJDXQ7

And without my scribble:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PSR2kSoVrctVg1EQ9

Again you can click on it and scroll to zoom in. The yellow mark looks like a second mine?  What did they use for power after they got rid of the Shays?

[wm3798]

Actually, it was empties up the hill, and loads only moved down.  Apart from tonnage and braking capabilities, the length of the tail track at the switchback was a substantial limiting factor.
There was a runaround track to ensure that the engine was always down hill from the loads.
I have the old WMRHS magazine articles that mapped the line and described the operation pretty thoroughly, with a gazillion photos.
Very cool.

Lee

[Chris333]

Are there any photos online?  When I search all that comes up is Cass 

[Missaberoad]

It occurs to me (even though I have not read this anywhere) that gravity may have provided switching capabilities at the mine.
If more than one car had to move under the coal chute, then the lower car would be loaded first.
And then the brakes eased off, the cars inch downhill, and lock the brakes again when the next empty is where it needs to be.

Very much possible, although I imagine there would have to be some kind of cable system to hold the cars back. On that kind of grade once you knocked the brakes off the cars would be gone...

[u18b]

Superdetailing:  Tumbling shaft
Part 2


After I got the shafts stuck in place, I didn’t feel the solder joint was strong enough.  So I clipped a tiny piece of solder and dropped it behind the cylinder.  When heated the solder melted and improved the joint.






   

On the rear side, I had to limit the shaft length to give clearance for the screw under the cab.

This was fine because that tank I added was a great addition and blocked the view of the shaft termination.





Even though it is deep in the background, I think this shaft adds a lot.