N-scale Gear Puller

[peteski]

Jim,

I just bought one of these "pinion pullers".  I bought it mainly to re-gauge wheelsets but I don't think it's going to work.  Moving the wheels closer together isn't a problem but I can' figure out how to move wheels further out on the axle.  It will work great for removing or re-setting gears that have a flat ended shaft but I can't see how to use it with the pointy axle ends found on most N-Scale stuff.  Maybe maybe have a mandrel (?) made with an indent in one end to fit over the pointy axle end?  Can you provide any enlightenment here since you've already used one?  Maybe I'm missing something.

Doug

For that see extensive writeup in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33107  (the good stuff starts in reply #21 https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33107.msg379288#msg379288 ).

Or Steve's quick and dirty solutions; https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=48520.msg643634#msg643634

[Jim Starbuck]

Jim,

I just bought one of these "pinion pullers".  I bought it mainly to re-gauge wheelsets but I don't think it's going to work.  Moving the wheels closer together isn't a problem but I can' figure out how to move wheels further out on the axle.  It will work great for removing or re-setting gears that have a flat ended shaft but I can't see how to use it with the pointy axle ends found on most N-Scale stuff.  Maybe maybe have a mandrel (?) made with an indent in one end to fit over the pointy axle end?  Can you provide any enlightenment here since you've already used one?  Maybe I'm missing something.

Doug

Doug,

All I’ve ever used this puller for is removing worms, gears and wheelsets all with flat ended shafts.
Just as an experiment I tried to regauge a spare wheelset using the largest diameter pin that comes with the puller. It did push the axle back through the wheel but The hardened push pin also flattened the axle point some.
One thing that comes to mind if you have access to or know someone with a lathe is to drill out a short piece of brass or aluminum round stock that fits over the push pin to make a “cane tip” cup that will allow pushing on the axle point without damaging it.
The threads that Petski referenced have very good information on regauging wheelsets.

Jim

[Maletrain]

I bought one of those Mascot pullers, but, unlike Peteski, I could not budge the pin in the ram.  I did end up bending it when trying to remove it.  I ended up making a new ram, with replaceable pins of various sizes, which is what I would have done with the original ram if I could have gotten the OEM pin out of it.

[Jim Starbuck]

I just had another idea.
Simply put a piece of brass round stock in place of the removable pin. If the end gets dinged up from pushing on axle points, just take it out and file the end flat again.

[mmagliaro]

I think it is a mistake to push on the pointed axle ends with any sort of ram of pin.
I have tried this in the past, and it usual ends up deforming the pointed end, so that the wheelset no longer spins smoothly
or wobbles in the cone holders.

If possible, I put a shim of wood between the ram and the axle point.  Unless the wheel is really pressed on super tight, you can still get the wheels to slide on the axle, and the wood protects the point.  A short length of tubing that goes over the point and then pushes on the tapered part of the axle end also works well.

[peteski]

If you guys go and read the info in the posts I liked to, the way not to damage the pointed steel axle end is to use softer metal ram. Aluminum is such material. I recommend reading the info I linked to.  Steve used an aluminum nail (brilliant)!

[Maletrain]

As long as you are pushing on an exposed axle point, you an put something soft and rather large over the point to protect it.  Once you get that point into the bored hole in the wheel (or whatever), if it still needs a strong force to move it, things get a little more difficult.  One way to do it is to have a ram with a conical depression that matches the taper of the axle point, except for a small relief hole deeper into the ram right at the point.  But, that takes a little machining to get it right.  I don't know of any commercially available rams that are made like that. 

[Steveruger45]

As Pete said, in my “quick and dirty” solution, I used an aluminum nail in the end of the watch pin press instead of the various supplied hard metal bits provided with the press.
I just happened have a whole bunch of these nails left over from Hurricane Katrina repairs to my last house.  I first used a lead weight but that got awkward to use.  For the aluminum nail I first made an axle point impression in the nail head with an old atlas wheel point.  I’ve done a whole bunch of Kato wheel presses now using this prepped aluminum nail and had no damage to the Kato wheel points.   You could use a copper rivet I guess too. Anyways something relatively soft.

[BCR751]

I'm going to go to one of our local machine shops and have them chuck a brass rod, the same diameter as the removable pins, and using a small (1/16") drill bit, drill a little divot in the end of the rod a bit shallower than the MT pointy axle ends.  Hopefully, that will allow me to use the device to both pull and push the wheels along the axle.  We'll see........

Doug

[peteski]

I'm going to go to one of our local machine shops and have them chuck a brass rod, the same diameter as the removable pins, and using a small (1/16") drill bit, drill a little divot in the end of the rod a bit shallower than the MT pointy axle ends.  Hopefully, that will allow me to use the device to both pull and push the wheels along the axle.  We'll see........

Doug

I would use a softer metal (like aluminum or copper). I feel that brass might be a bit hard (I believe that the the axles are soft stainless steel). I wouldn't use it.  No need to make a dimple in the aluminum or copper ram - the first axle you push will make its own indentation which will be perfectly formed to accept the axle point of the subsequent axles you are working on.

[BCR751]

I would use a softer metal (like aluminum or copper). I feel that brass might be a bit hard (I believe that the the axles are soft stainless steel). I wouldn't use it.  No need to make a dimple in the aluminum or copper ram - the first axle you push will make its own indentation which will be perfectly formed to accept the axle point of the subsequent axles you are working on.

Ah, it's a dimple, not a divot.  I knew I was using the wrong word.

Doug

[peteski]

Ah, it's a dimple, not a divot.  I knew I was using the wrong word.

Doug

Still, not necessary - the axle point will create its own perfectly shaped dimple/divot/hole (whatever you want to call it). 

[Maletrain]

A question for the folks who have actually used a soft ram material to push conical wheel axles through wheels to remove them: does forming the dimple on the end of the soft ram expand the ram's diameter at the end so that it will not go into the wheel without getting stuck in the hole in the wheel?

[Steveruger45]

Well, haven’t pushed an axle completely out but this got me thinking.
Why not push out from the non pointy end with a watchpin press, assuming the hard press pin is small enough diameter, then you would be pressing with a flat end press pin onto a flat end of the axle. 

[peteski]

Well, haven’t pushed an axle completely out but this got me thinking.
Why not push out from the non pointy end with a watchpin press, assuming the hard press pin is small enough diameter, then you would be pressing with a flat end press pin onto a flat end of the axle.

I really don't think that anybody wants to totally remove the axle (this notion got injected after the thread was started.  The original question was how to slightly push the pointy axle end in (not totally remove it) without damaging the point.

@Maletrain
My soft-metal ram is actually piece of sheet metal aluminum placed between the steel ram of my arbor press and the pointy axle.  I'm *NOT* ever trying to push the axle all the what through the wheel!  There is no need for that.  My goal is to just adjust the amount the pointy end sticks out of the wheel face.  That is also what this thread was started about.