Hot motor

[Joetrain59]

I had a ER Shark in my "hospital" box, as rear truck was not picking up power. Got that fixed.
 Unit hasn't been run in a long time, until this past Thursday, when I poked around rear truck problem.
 While apart, I lubed motor, and drivetrain. Motor did smoke a bit when I first powered it up, and motor ran hot then.
 Sunday night I finished cleaning wheels, and put loco back together.
 It did run more quiet, and smoother, but a good deal of smoke from rear of motor, where brushes are.
 (Shell was not on.) Smoke stopped after a bit, but motor got hot to the point of making frame hot also.
 Motor so hot, I could not touch it, but for a second. Do I need new brushes, or a motor?
 Then the question is, where to get?
 Thanks for any help.
 Joe D
 

[160pennsy]

Then the question is, where to get?
 Thanks for any help.
 Joe D

The motor with white worm gears for the ER Shark is the same one used in the older Bachman F7 and their trolleys. I had to replace one and was able to source it on the Bachman web site (check the images to make sure it matches the ER motor). If it’s not available there then you can always purchase a cheap F7 or trolley on eBay or the second hand market and strip the motor out. BTW if you are looking to add a decoder to the ER Shark the below instructions worked well for me

https://tcsdcc.com/installation/n-scale/1598

[peteski]

If the smoke is coming from the commutator, it might mean that the gaps between the commutator's segments are clogged up with conductive carbon mixed with oil, causing excessive current draw and heating up.  If there is access to the commutator, sharpen a wooden toothpick and see if you can clean the commutator slots.  you can also try to flush the commutator with 91% rubbing alcohol, or better yet Naphtha (lighter fluid or VM&P Naphtha from hardware store).  Then thoroughly dry the motor and lubricate the bearings before running it. That might fix the problem.

[Joetrain59]

I pulled the motor out tonight, and flushed commutator with 91% alc with a pipette. Used the end of a swab to clean it, while spinning motor slowly by hand.
Then used a small, stiff brush with more 91%. Let it dry a bit, then used Dustoff to help dry, and cleanout any residue. Motor does not run as hot, still gets pretty warm.
Commutator is scored, and I did not see segment gaps you mentioned Pete.
 Thanks,
 Joe D

[peteski]

Joe, here is a photo of a commutator of a Kato motor (other motors are similar).  I hope this helps in the explanation. Ignore the blue arrow.



The commutator is divided into as many segments as there are poles.  It first starts off as a solid copper ring, over an insulator, then gaps (grooves) are cut in the ring to create separate insulated segments. Those gaps are relatively deep.  The photo shows a clean commutator, but in use, it might get oily and the gaps might get filled with an oily mixture of carbon dust.  That is why I recommended sharpening an end of a wooden toothpick, and running it through the gaps, to clean the carbon out.  Maybe your alcohol rinse washed the carbon out - I don't know. If possible, I like to remove the carbon using mechanical means (sharp toothpick). I use wooden ones to prevent scratching the segments.

[Joetrain59]

Thanks Pete. I now remember 1 segment per pole. Will pull motor again, and sharpen up a toothpick. Or 2 or 3, or 4....
 And I'll get that naphtha, just won't run the pellet stove till after I'm done;)
 Joe D

 Seems that I can't get Naphtha here in CT. Screwed up state.
 Wonder if I can get lighter fluid????

[peteski]

Thanks Pete. I now remember 1 segment per pole. Will pull motor again, and sharpen up a toothpick. Or 2 or 3, or 4....
 And I'll get that naphtha, just won't run the pellet stove till after I'm done;)
 Joe D

 Seems that I can't get Naphtha here in CT. Screwed up state.
 Wonder if I can get lighter fluid????

You might be able to special order it at a hardware store. But if laws forbid it, then you would have to pick it up out of state.    Naphtha as Ronsonol Lighter Fluid is hopefully sold in CT, in smoke shops or drug stores/pharmacies. I've also seen it in supermarkets sometimes (since they sell cigarettes).

[Joetrain59]

Got Zippo lighter fluid at gas station store. Kind of an old looking can.
 Thanks,
 Joe

 Cleaned out those slots on commutator. They were barely visible before, that's why I couldn't see them.
  Motor works great now, will continue to spin for about 2 secs. after I remove power leads from Kato power pack!
  Nice and cool.

 Pete, are you anxiously awaiting for Paczi from Big Y? Or do you have a better local source? Yum.
 Thanks

[peteski]

 Cleaned out those slots on commutator. They were barely visible before, that's why I couldn't see them.
  Motor works great now, will continue to spin for about 2 secs. after I remove power leads from Kato power pack!
  Nice and cool.

 Pete, are you anxiously awaiting for Paczi from Big Y? Or do you have a better local source? Yum.
 Thanks

Excellent job Joe! I always like to hear about successful motor rescues. 

The electric motors we use in our hobby are very simple devices, not many things that can go bad. Usually a good cleaning and lubrication is all that's needed to make them well again.

Pączki, eh?
I haven't had any of them for a long time.  They showed up years ago, for short period, in Northeastern Massachusetts, but then they disappeared quickly.  Probably a good thing, as I'm trying to watch my girlish figure (baloon).    Sometimes the Polish Deli I visit has them, but they are usually not very fresh, so I don't bother.

The only true pączek is with prune (um, "dry plum" for those averse to the word prune) filling.  Those were the only kind available when I was growing up in Poland.  Whenever I attend the Springfield show I see big billboard ads for Pączki. I should stop by the Big-Y when I'm attending this year's show and pick up a box.

[Joetrain59]

Big Y paczki are decadent. Yeah, trying to watch my girlish figure too.
 Going to look at a used bicycle later today. 
 Thanks much again. I wonder how many loco motors might benefit from this
 intense type of cleaning?

  Joe D

[peteski]

Big Y paczki are decadent. Yeah, trying to watch my girlish figure too.
 Going to look at a used bicycle later today. 
 Thanks much again. I wonder how many loco motors might benefit from this
 intense type of cleaning?

  Joe D

I can just picture you riding one of those recumbent bikes with a pączek in one hand. 

While I don't know how many motors exhibit this problem, I'm sure that yours was not a lone example.  Most models are extremely over-oiled at the factory.  If the motor bearings have too much oil, since the commutator is right next to one of the bearings, oil oozes onto it. Oil is sticky, so the powdered carbon from the wearing down brushes sticks to the oil. After quite a bit of running time, enough of that mixture fills the commutator gaps, causing the problem you just fixed.

[Point353]

Pączki, eh?
I haven't had any of them for a long time.  They showed up years ago, for short period, in Northeastern Massachusetts, but then they disappeared quickly.  Probably a good thing, as I'm trying to watch my girlish figure (baloon).    Sometimes the Polish Deli I visit has them, but they are usually not very fresh, so I don't bother.

The only true pączek is with prune (um, "dry plum" for those averse to the word prune) filling.  Those were the only kind available when I was growing up in Poland.  Whenever I attend the Springfield show I see big billboard ads for Pączki. I should stop by the Big-Y when I'm attending this year's show and pick up a box.

Skip Big Y and head to Bob's Bakery in Chicopee:



Especially for you, they make them with prune filling:

[peteski]

You're killin' me!
 

[CRL]

That prune filling should make you a regular customer.






Ahhh...

[tehachapifan]

That prune filling should make you a regular customer.






Ahhh...

That's gold, Jerry....gold!