Concrete Tie strip for N Scale and Code 40 Rail

[ednadolski]

I will get you some new ties with the bridges lowered.  I'll work on that today.   Also, as far as super elevation, would there be any point in building that into the tie base?  That could be done and then offer a transition piece to go with it, smoothly transitioning from flat to the super elevation.  Would you have a dimension to raise it in mind?  I would guess about .015" across the tie span but...

Thanks Mark, that pen sounds like a good option.  No need tho to hurry on changing the ties; as for the superelevation that's tricky since the amount of height (and the transition length) could certainly vary considerably.

Now, I've go to go build something more than just a couple of inches long... 

Ed

[narrowminded]

Thanks Mark, that pen sounds like a good option.  No need tho to hurry on changing the ties; as for the superelevation that's tricky since the amount of height (and the transition length) could certainly vary considerably.

Now, I've go to go build something more than just a couple of inches long... 

Ed

OK, Ed.  I'll make the lowered tie bridge and they will be the "Ed Nadolski Signature Series" with only one side bridged.  What Ed wants, Ed gets.

I'm still inclined to make the standard offering with both bridges with the idea that it will be easier to handle for the average human but with your experience and mad skills I'm sure you'll make anything work.  We even have evidence in this thread.

Thanks for your efforts and feedback.  It's been very helpful.

[narrowminded]

@robert3985 and all.  For those sections where you want to "bury" the ties in the dirt, what if there was a tie bed made that was just much thinner?   A transition piece could be made to enter and exit those pieces while maintaining rail alignment.  Maybe made in just siding bed.

[robert3985]

@robert3985 and all.  For those sections where you want to "bury" the ties in the dirt, what if there was a tie bed made that was just much thinner?   A transition piece could be made to enter and exit those pieces while maintaining rail alignment.  Maybe made in just siding bed.

Mark @narrowminded , when doing industrial/yard trackage...I'm not really consistent when "burying" the ties.  Most of the time, when a stretch of track get its ties buried, it's because of a build-up of material is raining down on it, such as dust and dry concrete in my Ideal Concrete Plant area, or cinders in my Echo Yard, and my future Ogden/Riverdale Yard.  This means that in yards, sections of it are not buried, and sections of it are, and sometimes, because of repairs made on the track, or modifications...a very short section will be exposed normally, or maybe one side of it will be...with the tie-ends sticking out...and only  a few feet further, everything is buried again. 

Industry trackage, at least in my case, is serviced by UP MacArthurs (Mikados), and later by USRA Light MacArthurs...and later by GP-7's and 9's, so the ties and spacing aren't considered "light traffic"...since the motive power originally wasn't just switchers, but mainline locomotives.  As in yards, portions of the trackage will be buried, and other parts will be exposed...in the case of industrial trackage, maybe verrry lightly ballasted, with the ties nearly fully exposed.  Spacers between ties on your tie-strips that can be easily removed after gluing down by just snipping them off, will aid greatly in achieving that "airy" look of old-ballasted, ill-kept industrial trackage.

This means that in my case, thinner ties and transitions wouldn't be practical because the buried and exposed sections will be achieved by art rather than planning...and I am going to celebrate the scale tie-ends your strips have by showing them whenever it's appropriate.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[narrowminded]

Mark @narrowminded , when doing industrial/yard trackage...I'm not really consistent when "burying" the ties.  Most of the time, when a stretch of track get its ties buried, it's because of a build-up of material is raining down on it, such as dust and dry concrete in my Ideal Concrete Plant area, or cinders in my Echo Yard, and my future Ogden/Riverdale Yard.  This means that in yards, sections of it are not buried, and sections of it are, and sometimes, because of repairs made on the track, or modifications...a very short section will be exposed normally, or maybe one side of it will be...with the tie-ends sticking out...and only  a few feet further, everything is buried again. 

Industry trackage, at least in my case, is serviced by UP MacArthurs (Mikados), and later by USRA Light MacArthurs...and later by GP-7's and 9's, so the ties and spacing aren't considered "light traffic"...since the motive power originally wasn't just switchers, but mainline locomotives.  As in yards, portions of the trackage will be buried, and other parts will be exposed...in the case of industrial trackage, maybe verrry lightly ballasted, with the ties nearly fully exposed.  Spacers between ties on your tie-strips that can be easily removed after gluing down by just snipping them off, will aid greatly in achieving that "airy" look of old-ballasted, ill-kept industrial trackage.

This means that in my case, thinner ties and transitions wouldn't be practical because the buried and exposed sections will be achieved by art rather than planning...and I am going to celebrate the scale tie-ends your strips have by showing them whenever it's appropriate.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

Thanks, Robert.  Makes perfect sense.

[narrowminded]

- A jig to hold the rail (or several rails) bottom-side up
 - A way to grip and handle the rail after applying adhesive to the bottom

Here you go @ednadolski .  I think this will work.  It really grips the rail solidly so will work on the bench and one can be left on to use as a handle.  If the rail is painted already the plain metal might tend to scratch it but I suspect some masking tape could be put in those clamp jaws to protect the rail.  Here's a link to the clips on Amazon where you can get a good picture of them or purchase some.  You'll probably see how the shape works pretty well for this purpose.  It would be handy for code 55 as well. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BFPG2JX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Use as many as you like on the bench and leave one on as a handle for installing.  And a quick video:

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Edit add:  After scrutinizing these clips I've added a step to prepping them as a tool, not a paper clip.   There's a burr on the inside edge of the clamp face, an artifact from the stamping of the part.  I held them open and filed the burr with a flat jeweler's file and then finalized with some 600 or 1000 grit paper.  That finish will be way less prone to scratching the rail in handling and with care, maybe enough.  It will certainly cut down on scratches.  I'm anxious to see how it acts on the ME factory weathered rail which is on order but hasn't arrived yet. 

Which brings to mind, does anybody have a recommendation for a paint color for the ME weathered finish to touch up cut ends, machined faces, or just assembly scratches?

And after some experimentation and this method of gripping the rail, an easy Pliobond application method is pretty well sorted.  Still need to make the guide tool but for volume laying it should be pretty slick.  For short runs, like a diorama, diluted Pliobond (50% or so) applied with a small paint brush will probably be the easiest.  And while these pieces have been developed for this project they will be handy tools/ methods for doing any kind of hand laid track using Pliobond for rail attachment.  There will be a video (in a few weeks?) with all of the gory details.

[ednadolski]

Great idea, @narrowminded , I'll have to try those out    Looks to me like it should work w/full length rail too.

If scratches are a concern, then tape sounds like the best option, or perhaps if there is something simillar made of plastic.

Ed

[narrowminded]

Great idea, @narrowminded , I'll have to try those out    Looks to me like it should work w/full length rail too.

If scratches are a concern, then tape sounds like the best option, or perhaps if there is something similar made of plastic.

Ed

One of the features of the metal clips is that the grip face is thin enough that that it doesn't extend beyond the rail foot profile.  It stays nested just beneath the rail foot face allowing a guide to pass over the clamp area unobstructed and the angle of the clamp face seats it solidly in the rail web, getting a pretty solid grip on the rail.  That was one of the issues that kept rearing its head as I was contemplating how to do this.  Those clips were one of those duh' moments.   It's almost as if they were designed just for this.   I fear that a plastic clip would be too thick and extend beyond the foot face. 

I think that taking a moment to remove the burr from the grip face and making sure that they are aligned squarely to each other, allowing them to seat squarely as the video demonstrated will be worth the effort over the long term, adding a very useful tool to your toolbox.  And it's another one of those things that can be harder to describe than it is  to do it.

[narrowminded]

I took a break from my drawing machine late last night and decided that I needed to see what some paint and rusty tie plates might look like on a piece of this wood tie track.  This is a piece of siding track.  It isn't the best, actually a rush job and something I'm new to but it shows real potential.   I have to say I'm pretty happy with how this is going and it really makes me anxious to see what @robert3985 will do with this stuff.

This piece was already painted Krylon Camo Brown so I did a light tan wash, then some wood grain scratched with a track saw and/ or a piece of coarser toothed serrated metal tape cutter retrieved from an empty Scotch tape dispenser, then some India ink wash, then the tie plates colored with Red Earth acrylic ink.  The rails were given a coating of Neolube for a convenient and fast darkening of the rails.  The Neolube worked for this quickee but it's not the way to go for a real installation.  I definitely need practice but I'm seeing great possibilities!  This stuff's gonna' look goood!  I'm happy. 

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[ednadolski]

Looks interesting, tho it's a little hard to see much detail in contrast against the white background.... do you have one of those grey photo cards?

The end-on shot looks good, esp. the middle where you can really see the texture in the foreshortened perspective.  Some dry-brushing with a light driftwood tone would bring out the detail too.

The side shot really shows off the webbing.  The dark color on that does help to hide it when covered by ballast.
Ed

[narrowminded]

Looks interesting, tho it's a little hard to see much detail in contrast against the white background.... do you have one of those grey photo cards?

The end-on shot looks good, esp. the middle where you can really see the texture in the foreshortened perspective.  Some dry-brushing with a light driftwood tone would bring out the detail too.

The side shot really shows off the webbing.  The dark color on that does help to hide it when covered by ballast.
Ed

Those are full height bridges from the first run, flush with the top rail seat.  They will be dropped on the next run. 

I used  that pen I mentioned for the tie plates.  It goes pretty good.

[narrowminded]

Another progress update.   One of the methods of applying glue when hand laying track is with a syringe.  This tool is now ready and is designed to steady the syringe in alignment with the rail foot when gluing code 40 or code 55 rail.  There will be a video with the whole story and demo in use. 

There will be at least two suggested ways to apply Pliobond and possibly a third.  That's still in the works.  One way is diluted with acetone and applied with a small brush.  That's a legitimate way and may be easiest when doing small jobs.  For larger jobs or just by user preference, there's the syringe.  That can be hand guided if you've got a steady hand and good eye or I designed this guide tool to help the user to keep the tool lined up with the rail foot.  This tool and the rail bender were designed as aids when laying this new tie bed, especially in bigger projects, but either of these tools are useful for any hand laying of track, not just for this tie bed.

The glue guide uses standard 1cc syringes with screw on needles (Luer Lock type), not press on, and two different SS blunt needles.  One is an 8 gauge for filling the syringe from the glue bottle and the other is a 20 Gauge for applying the glue.  The Pliobond is too thick to draw the glue from the bottle with the 20 gauge needle (.035" OD).  They are to be reused, cleaned up with acetone when the job is finished. 

Here are some pics.  Full video of the use will be in a few weeks, as we get further along.

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And the glue guide is made so it can be hung on the side of a shot glass with acetone in it, keeping the needle submerged.  If left in the air the glue will start to cure within a minute or so and will mess with the delivery of the glue.  Parking the needle in acetone keeps it dissolved, ready to go when you are.   This is a handy tool.

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And this is one of the rail bending tool.  It was posted a while ago when I made it for the start of all of this, my Nn3 track.

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More to come.


Edit add: This is a video of that rail bender at work.  Some will have seen this. 

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[narrowminded]

And here's another update.  @ednadolski , here's your revised tie bed! I think it's final.

Bridge pieces are lowered and moved to the center, staggered right and left of C/L, offset .010" (.020" total) so you can actually see the line for alignment.  All else is the same as it was.

Here's your poor pics but they do show the bridge changes:

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Is that what you had in mind?

[GaryHinshaw]

That seems like a really nice solution to the bridge problem.

[narrowminded]

That seems like a really nice solution to the bridge problem.

Thanks, Gary.   I was and still am a little worried that the single bridge will be harder to manage when gluing the bed down but I think the bridge up the middle instead of to one side will be the more manageable of the two options.  I should try a few pieces myself and see how it acts as well as get the feedback from Ed after he's had a chance to fool with it some.  If it proves to be more manageable than I'm anticipating that may be the way to go for the wood ties, too.   And worst case, I can always make either, customer's choice.  Right now I'm up to about 12 variations of wood ties in just N scale accounting for mains, branch, and siding, then code 40 and code 55, then a couple of transition adapters, then a few different tie lengths.  Double or single guides would double that!

One thing that the single center bridge might have going for it with the wood ties is the possibility of arbitrarily setting a few ties here and there slightly askew, snip a bridge out occasionally and set the spacing slightly different, things like that.  The guides will stand a rail coming through at a slight angle, about all you'd want anyway.  The biggest concern would be keeping the guides in line with each other, not getting a few ties' guides wandering out of alignment.  But that could be assured by using the recommended .040" styrene piece or a piece of rail bridging a few of the guides ahead and behind the one being pushed around.  I think that I'd want to lay them straight then, before the bed glue has dried completely, come along and adjust a few.  That was the original plan all along even with the double bridges.

I am totally OK with arbitrarily setting the ties offset from each other as the previous photos show and they don't develop a pattern that visibly repeats.  I am concerned that that could happen with angled ties and odd tie spacings, visibly showing a repeating pattern on longer runs.  I also think it could make laying the bed, especially in curves, harder to gauge by eye, not readily knowing if the visible misalignment is the result of a screwed up install that may have the rail not dropping in as it should, or what's built in to the track.   It might be better to lay it then go back with your nippers and a piece of .040" styrene or rail to assure guide alignments are maintained on any you're moving around, and then randomly move a few as you see fit.  That wouldn't show a repeating pattern and could be made more, or less perfect, depending on the desired effect. 

I'll have to try some of these things out and prove if these concerns are legit or hooey.  The whole idea here is to make really nice track with a level of detail previously unavailable but... that can still be installed by mere mortals.   Getting this off the ground is a LOT of work.