21st-Century Layout Control

[C855B]

@C855B Will your RPi have enough horsepower to run the web server for multiple panels and the Wii throttle server at once?

Probably. The RPi4 is a big leap forward. So far I don't see where it would be lacking. If it can't hack it, I already have the JMRI config on a desktop PC running Ubuntu.

[Carolina Northern]

I'll have to go back and re-read the layout thread. I didn't remember that you'd upgraded to a 4.

Don

[C855B]

Only a couple of aside mentions, one here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=26087.msg636029#msg636029

[LesBaer45]

The 2.4GHz WiFi has multiple channels (16?), with each channel capable of supporting multiple connections.  I assume that multiple channels can operate simultaneously.

Friend of mine was planning of creating a similar setup. He mentioned that the JMRI remote panels are network and performance hogs because the panels are bitmaps and ever refresh redraws the entire panel.

No, no, no, no. Please don't just randomly select channels you will toast the "network" for yourself and your neighbors if it isn't already trashed. And don't use "wide" channels either. Leave them at 20Mhz. For 2.4GHz channels 1,6 or 11 and that's it. And don't overload your network with multiple SSID's, it's an additive knock on effect to the traffic load.

All versions of Wi-Fi up to and including 802.11n (a, b, g, n) operate between the frequencies of 2400 and 2500MHz. These 100MHz are separated into 14 channels of 20MHz each. As you’ve probably worked out, 14 lots of 20MHz is a lot more than 100MHz — and as a result, every 2.4GHz channel overlaps with at least two, if not four, other channels. And as you can probably imagine, using overlapping channels is bad — in fact, it’s the primary reason for poor throughput on your wireless network.

Fortunately, channels 1, 6, and 11 are spaced far enough apart that they don’t overlap. On a non-MIMO setup (i.e. 802.11 a, b, or g) you should always try to use channel 1, 6, or 11. If you use 802.11n with 20MHz channels, stick to channels 1, 6, and 11.

For example, if you’re using channel 1, but someone next door is annoyingly using channel 2, then your throughput will plummet. In that situation, you would have to change to channel 11 to completely avoid the interference (though 6 would be pretty good as well). It might be tempting to use a channel other than 1, 6, or 11 — but remember that you will then be the cause of interference (and everyone on 1, 6, and 11 will stomp on your throughput, anyway).

The great thing about 5GHz (802.11n and 802.11ac) is that because there’s much more free space at the higher frequencies, it offers 23 non-overlapping 20MHz channels.

Starting with 802.11n and continuing with 802.11ac, wireless technology in general became much more advanced than the prehistoric days of 802.11b and g. If you own at least a decent 802.11n or 802.11ac router or AP, it likely has some hardware inside that chooses the right channel automatically and modifies the output power to maximize throughput and minimize interference.

If you’re using the 5GHz band, and your walls aren’t paper-thin, then attenuation and the general lack of 5GHz devices should mean there’s little interference in your dwelling. You could go with wider channels in 5GHz (ie 40MHZ or larger) but you are better off with just the 20 unless you are in a really isolated area.

https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/why-channels-1-6-11.html

https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/adjacent-channel-congestion.html

https://documentation.meraki.com/MR/WiFi_Basics_and_Best_Practices/Channel_Planning_Best_Practices

https://www.ekahau.com/blog/2019/04/18/channel-planning-best-practices-for-better-wi-fi/

[peteski]

Then why the F**K they give you the ability to select all 14 channels?! Especially since most WiFi self-installs are done by people oblivious to what you stated.  I consider myself computer literate, and I didn't know. Imagine someone who barely knows how to boot up their PC.    And to go and do research about which channels to use?  Why would that even cross someone's mind? 

So thanks for the info, but I'm still rolling my eyes.  And mine is set up on channel 4.   And how does one even  find out what channels are used by the WiFi networks in the neighborhood?  Back on Windows 98SE  my wireless config app actually showed the channels of the WiFi networks it found, but where does one find this info on Windows 7 or later?

[MK]

Peteski, there are tons of apps that you can download on to your phone that will scan the airwaves and tell you not only the WiFi network but what channel is being used.  I used WiFi Analyzer on my phone but I'm sure most, if not all, give you channel numbers.  Some of the better routers will switch channels base on channel traffic as what you see now may be different later.

[Mike C]

@peteski  , I used this one https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html . Had a real slow wifi for a while till I went to a wired connection .

[peteski]

Peteski, there are tons of apps that you can download on to your phone that will scan the airwaves and tell you not only the WiFi network but what channel is being used.  I used WiFi Analyzer on my phone but I'm sure most, if not all, give you channel numbers.  Some of the better routers will switch channels base on channel traffic as what you see now may be different later.

Mike, I don't use a smart phone. 
Um, wait - I do have a $20 "burner  phone" (phone function disabled) on which I downloaded the Engine Drive app to use it as a WiFi throttle.  I guess I can use that one.  And I guess I can get WiFi enabled on my Win98SE machine again (I still use to run my Alps printer from it).  it's WiFi config shows channels of all the active WiFi networks. 

[LesBaer45]

I wouldn't enable the MIMO or the "load balancing" bit either. That's mostly marketing snake oil.

It is a good idea to go with the "Enterprise" AP's though if you are going to have a lot of clients in a layout space. NetGear, Ubiquiti, Ruckus, Cisco, any that meet your $/value ratio will work.

There are many good tablet/smartphone apps that will show you channels/aps/you name it around you. There are several available for PC/MAC as well although you may be SOL with WinXP.

I spent way too much time getting my neighborhood "right" with anonymous printouts left in mailboxes. 

Worth it though if you really want your 'wifi' stuff to work and limited 'buffering' on your "streaming devices".

[peteski]

I did fire up my Win98SE machine and here is my WiFi neighborhood.  Looks like there  might be some contention on ch 11. I'm on 4. 

[Maletrain]

Peteski, It looks like you might do better on channel 6 so you don't compete at all with that 43% on channel 1.  But, if it aint broke ...

[peteski]

@peteski  , I used this one https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/wifi_information_view.html . Had a real slow wifi for a while till I went to a wired connection .

Thanks Mike.

[LesBaer45]

Peteski, It looks like you might do better on channel 6 so you don't compete at all with that 43% on channel 1.  But, if it aint broke ...

It is broke. Never mind what it looks like, it is broken. Move it to 6, the person on 1 will appreciate it.

All those 11 may not matter, depends on the signal strength in their specific location not what peteski is seeing.

Apartment/condos are the worst.

[peteski]

It is broke. Never mind what it looks like, it is broken. Move it to 6, the person on 1 will appreciate it.

All those 11 may not matter, depends on the signal strength in their specific location not what peteski is seeing.

Apartment/condos are the worst.

I'll make it so number one!     Single-family houses here, but fairly close together.

[C855B]

If anybody is interested in trying soft panels on the cheap with their JMRI setup, Menard's (Midwestern DIY chain) is blowing out "10.1-inch" Android tablets:

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/home-electronics/small-electronics/packard-bell-10-1-android-trade-tablet/pb101tbk/p-1555482549590-c-6299.htm

By blowout, I mean an end price of $41 each, this week only, provided you can purchase in-person. In addition to the rebate shown in that link, they are running a "bag sale", anything that will fit in their grocery-sized paper bag is 15% off, calculated on the price before rebate. So $79.99 at the "everyday price", marked down to $59.99, 15% off is 50.99, minus $10 back makes it $40.99. Such a deal! The bag fits 8, maybe 9 (don't ask how I know    ). While you can only apply for the rebate once, you can buy as many as you want and get that rebate for each. Most stores appear to have up to 50 in stock, although our local store only had six, all but one with the package cut open and then taped, hence the blowout. First one I (re)opened was otherwise unmolested, the tablet itself still in the factory-sealed baggie.

I say "10.1 inch" in quotes because these are 16:9 screens, not the normal 4:3 you'd find on an iPad or Surface. Sort of sucky for web browsing, but the wide format is perfect for controlling an interlocking or small yard.

These pads run Android 9 "Pie". My main beef is - no different than any other consumer Android device - it takes about an hour of stepping through settings to reel-in the constant Google redirection, and of course the snooping. No matter for me, at least, since I run the pads on an intranet with no physical connection to the outside world, but nonetheless on the odd chance I put one or all on an exposed network it's best to be safe.