BLI T1 stalls entering block.

[propmeup1]

I have my layout divided into two halves due to the length on the main. Therefore i have two boosters, NCE products.  All my engines cross into either section without any issues except the BLI T1's. They usually stall but continue on without needing a restart. It is very annoying however.   Is there a solution to this problem ? My other BLI engine cross over fine ecept the centipedes but they are another case within themselves.       
     For all the wheels these engines have they still give me fits and over turn outs too.
Thank you, Keith

[nickelplate759]

I've no experience with the T1 (although I'd love one...).  That said, I recently diagnosed a similar problem with an old Atlas GP9 to too tight a gauge on the axles of one truck.  This caused it to lift a little bit on the guard rails by the frog on the turnout, and sometimes to stall briefly - where there happened to be a block boundary.  So - check the gauge on all those axles if you haven't already.

[spookshow]

They can be fussy if the wheels are dirty, so I'd check that. Also, make sure the axle wipers on the tender trucks are clean and free of corrosion.



-Mark

[jdcolombo]

Try disconnecting one of the boosters and running the engine around the layout off just one booster.

Does the problem still occur? 

If not, then the problem is with your booster wiring arrangement.

If so, the problem is with the engine.

I have a Key brass 2-8-4 that stalled at one particular point on my layout - the junction where one booster "passed off" to another booster.  It turns out that the problem was that I was using one "opto-isolated" booster, and the Key used a typical brass electrical pickup: left side of engine, right side of tender.  This meant that when the engine crossed the booster boundary, it stalled, because half the engine was on the isolated booster, and the other half on the other booster.  Since the one booster was isolated, the engine wasn't getting power at that one spot.

I don't remember the T1's pickup arrangement, or what NCE's boosters are like (I used Digitrax) so this may not be the problem.  But the first thing to do is eliminate the booster wiring as an issue.

John C.

[propmeup1]

I just cleaned all the wheels again but still likes to stall at the boarder where the two boosters meet. However it is only the T1's, I have three and they all do the same thing so this is telling me it's the engines. My other engines run right over it and the brand doesn't mater.   
    I'm thinking about adding to each engine one of those "keep alive capacitors" that you get with Soundtraxx decoders.  Any thoughts on doing that before i do ? I'd rather not foul something up in the BLI decoder by adding the capacitor.

Thanks for the ideas already given.

[learmoia]

The way I read your first post you have other BLI sound locos (not T1s) that go through the area OK. 

I was thinking CV11=0 but if your other (non T1) BLI locos go through the area then I'm not sure that would work.

Stall can be Stop OR Stall can be loose power and stop

Does it stop and go to idle sound?  (If yes CV11=0 should fix it)

Does it loose power and go through its power on sound sequence..? (It's finding (or creating it's own) momentary short).

Do you have to nudge it to regain power? Somehow it found a small dead spot.. (which is surprising with how many wheels and as long of a wheelbase it has.)

~Ian

[jdcolombo]

I just cleaned all the wheels again but still likes to stall at the boarder where the two boosters meet. However it is only the T1's, I have three and they all do the same thing so this is telling me it's the engines. My other engines run right over it and the brand doesn't mater.   
    I'm thinking about adding to each engine one of those "keep alive capacitors" that you get with Soundtraxx decoders.  Any thoughts on doing that before i do ? I'd rather not foul something up in the BLI decoder by adding the capacitor.

Thanks for the ideas already given.

Using a single (or even 2 or 3 or 4) 220uf caps as a keep alive won't solve your problem.  These "mini" keep-alives are really about keeping the sound decoder from resetting or cutting out in the event of micro-second electrical interruptions.  They don't provide enough power to keep a motor running.  To avoid a stall, you'd have to install something like a TCS KA-1 or KA-2 or KA-3, and I'm not sure you have room in the tender for that with the stock BLI decoder.  And I'm not sure how you'd wire it up, since that decoder almost certainly doesn't have pads to attach a keep alive to.  You CAN wire a keep alive to nearly any decoder if you know what you're doing, but it won't be simple.

If I were you, I'd still try running with a single booster and see if that makes a difference.  Toubleshooting odd problems like this always involves eliminating potential oddball problems.  Eliminate the booster as an issue.  Then you can figure out what else to do.

John C.

[propmeup1]

The stall is short,  it's enough to stop the train for a fraction of a second. It resets the whistle only but the train has to start moving again slowly as if it's starting the first time from the station.  I'll pull a booster off this weekend when i have time to fool around with it more.   
    It just bugs me to death. The nearly $300 engines and they all do the same thing and as said above, long wheel base and many wheels, this shouldn't happen. I run 2-8-0's without any issues.  The M1's run beautifully. i only wish the T1's ran as good. Also wondering if it the decoder they have in them. Here is where i been dancing around about putting a Soundtraxx in one to see what happens.

[peteski]

The stall is short,  it's enough to stop the train for a fraction of a second. It resets the whistle only but the train has to start moving again slowly as if it's starting the first time from the station.  I'll pull a booster off this weekend when i have time to fool around with it more.   
    It just bugs me to death. The nearly $300 engines and they all do the same thing and as said above, long wheel base and many wheels, this shouldn't happen. I run 2-8-0's without any issues.  The M1's run beautifully. i only wish the T1's ran as good.

You say that the stall is a short (not open circuit)?  Does that mean that one of the boosters (or both) trip their over-current breaker?
My T1 is currently in pieces, but IIRC, when it would lose power, or short out (which is equivalent of brief power interruption), when power was restored the BLI decoder had to re-initialize, which would take noticeable amount of time, then the model would slowly gain speed up to what the throttle speed step is set to.

As described, the problem makes no sense to me.  I assume that the block boundary is gapped at both rails?
If yes, take 2 small flat-head screwdrivers (or similar metal tools), and use those metal tools to short the block gaps: one tool for each rail (do not create a short between the left and right rail). Basically, you are connecting both block together.  When you do that, does one of the boosters shut down?  I'm thinking that maybe the boosters are out of phase?  But then every loco crossing the gaps should cause the problem.

Are the block gaps on each rail staggered, or at the same location?

[ChristianJDavis1]

You say that the stall is a short

I think he means it's a short duration, rather than a short circuit, as in the stall is momentary before the train begins moving again. That's how I read it, at least.

[peteski]

I think he means it's a short duration, rather than a short circuit, as in the stall is momentary before the train begins moving again. That's how I read it, at least.

Yeah, looks like I misread it. 

[propmeup1]

The short I mean to say is momentary. short duration.   Like my centipedes, they do it almost over every turnout, that is why i run a M1 on the point. When they short out the M1 keeps pulling them over the area without stopping the train.   I just hate to put one on the point of a T1 even though i seen video with K4's and L1s probably as helpers going around the curve. The T1's are too beautiful to not be up front.  I'll try the screw drive thing tonight after work. 

[spookshow]

You didn't mention whether you'd checked the wheel gauging. That was a well known issue with the centipedes and would lead to stalls over turnouts.

-Mark

[learmoia]

Yeah, looks like I misread it. 

I meant a momentary short... as the loco is running a short is detected, power is cut, loco rolls out of it, power comes back on before you get a short alert tone from the command station..  But enough time for the BLI decoder to reset.

If the loco stops and goes through its startup sequence it's a short circut recovery.. (assuming you've ruled out dirty track)

If the loco stops and goes to idle (without startup sequence)its packet loss. And CV11 would fix it.

BTW.. how big is this N scale layout that you need a booster??

To test the 'is it the booster' question, I would jumper the busses together under the layout and disconnect the booster and see what it does..

I didnt quite understand the screwdriver idea and it sounded like it wouldn't give definitive results.

~Ian

[mmagliaro]

Perhaps you have already read up on all the technical articles you could find on NCS boosters, but like most multiple-booster arrangements, they recommend using a Booster Common to avoid this hiccup at the booster boundaries.  Do you have a common wired to both boosters?

https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006825794-Booster-common-Bonding-or-Floating-Ground-for-multiple-boosters

Here's another vote for running a single booster to see if the problem goes away. 

I would not assume the engine is the problem just because the T1 seems to be the only engine doing this.
The T1 may be more sensitive to the problem than your other engines, but the engine itself still may not really be the issue.   Heck, I don't know how many times I've debugged a track or wiring issue even on a DC layout that seemed to "affect only this one loco", where it turned out to be a track or wiring problem.