Conrail up in Coal Country

[wm3798]

Run the girders out to the frame edge of the door, and hang the legs from the girders, not the door.  Easy peasy.
Lee

[wazzou]

Run the girders out to the frame edge of the door, and hang the legs from the girders, not the door.  Easy peasy.
Lee

This ^^^
and really you could brace it more traditionally in the L girder fashion or still attach the brackets to legs/girders.
Just box the ends of the L Girder with 1x3 or 1x4 and you could do the same thing you've done now but have the legs safely out of the way.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ok, so how do the forces work when installing the girder?

Is it the lateral compression that holds it in place? Or is it the vertical strengthening?

[wm3798]

If it's an L girder, both.  Just make sure you're using reasonably good straight, knot-free 1x3 or 1x4.

[wm3798]

Make 2 L girders, the full length of the door, then put a couple of ladders between them to establish the width of the legs.  I'd make the girder system 24" wide to set in 6" from the front and back edge to minimize knee banging.

Likewise, set the legs 12" in from the ends.  That's how I built the frame that underpinned the paper mill.

Add some x bracing to stabilize the wobble, and you're off to the races.
Lee

[davefoxx]

If it's an L girder, both.  Just make sure you're using reasonably good straight, knot-free 1x3 or 1x4.

Looks like I went with a 1"x3" web and 1"x4" girder to build my L-girder.  @Ed Kapuscinski, if you look at the end of my yard, you can see the cross-section of my benchwork.  Imagine that the 1"x2" on top of the L-girders is the HCD, and you can see how I secured the L-girders- the same way you would be able to do with the structure around the perimeter of the door.  Then, you can install the legs anywhere you want- either all the way out to maximize the storage space underneath or tucked in a few inches to eliminate a kicking hazard.



Hope this helps,
DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Isn't this a bit of overkill?

Obviously I need to prevent sag, but I'm seriously not planning on standing on the things, or sitting on them, or... well, anything else. As the single door is right now, it's pretty rigid (the amount of movement because it's sitting on carpet is FAR worse than the movement of the actual structural members.

I want to combat the sag, but I'd be curious to see how bad that actually is over time. I'm not planning on this thing living for the next 30 years, either.

I think a simple brace down the spine might just do the job, but I also think some masonite fascia, screwed in, will provide the tension needed to prevent the sag.

Or am I missing something?

[wazzou]

That's all entirely up to you of course but the end goal for "me" would be to get those legs more inward.

[davefoxx]

Isn't this a bit of overkill?

Definitely, so it depends on your plans.  If this is a long-term layout, the extra expense and labor won't be painful.  I built the Seaboard Central 2.0 to be portable, so I went with the 1/4" Masonite fascia glued and screwed to the door, to keep the weight down.  If I were building a more substantial layout (as you are), especially if there are plans to use the doors as modular units, I would install more significant framing to stiffen the door.  Do you need the L-girder strength?  No, but it's easy to build and makes it simple to secure the door and the legs.  No matter, which method you use, if there's any bow to this door, put the bow up, so it will flatten if there is any subsequent sag of the HCD.

Obviously I need to prevent sag, but I'm seriously not planning on standing on the things, or sitting on them, or... well, anything else. As the single door is right now, it's pretty rigid (the amount of movement because it's sitting on carpet is FAR worse than the movement of the actual structural members.

I want to combat the sag, but I'd be curious to see how bad that actually is over time. I'm not planning on this thing living for the next 30 years, either.

I think a simple brace down the spine might just do the job, but I also think some masonite fascia, screwed in, will provide the tension needed to prevent the sag.

Or am I missing something?

Nope, you're not missing a thing.  See above.

DFF

[Point353]

As the single door is right now, it's pretty rigid (the amount of movement because it's sitting on carpet is FAR worse than the movement of the actual structural members.

One possible solution to the instability from sitting on carpeting would be to install, at the bottom of the legs, the sort of spikes sold for home audio speakers/stands.
For example, a variety of such items is available here: https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=speaker+spike&sitesearch=true

These are relatively basic sets:
https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-cabinet-3-8-toe-spike-set-4-pcs--240-725
https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-cabinet-1-2-super-toe-spike-set-4-pcs--240-730

Installation instructions:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/installation-guides/240-725-parts-express-installation-guide.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/installation-guides/240-730-parts-express-installation-guide.pdf

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Those are... possibly perfect!
Gonna check them out.

[SAH]

Since you have piles of junk to hide, consider inexpensive bookcases from IKEA.  Bolt the vertical members to the side of a bookcase at each end of the door and run the girders the length of the door.  Fill the bookcases with the nice looking junk (books and such) for weight and pile the rest of the stuff behind the bookcase.  A surprisingly solid structure is the result.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Since you have piles of junk to hide, consider inexpensive bookcases from IKEA.  Bolt the vertical members to the side of a bookcase at each end of the door and run the girders the length of the door.  Fill the bookcases with the nice looking junk (books and such) for weight and pile the rest of the stuff behind the bookcase.  A surprisingly solid structure is the result.

I actually did that very thing for my old layout back in our apartment! It worked great, although I did it with the shelves facing in so I could pack more crap under there and hide it all with a skirt.

[davefoxx]

What did you use for fascia?  I had some sagging on the JD even with 1/8" Masonite fascia.  But I also didn't extend the fascia below the base of the door, so that might have been part of the problem.

I found a picture for confirmation.  I went 1-1/2" below the HCD on the Seaboard Central 2.0.  You can see the 1"x 4" strapping crossing the door where the banquet table legs are attached.  There's 3/4" of fascia visible below that.  I don't recall any significant sag on the v2.0, but perhaps @narrowminded can confirm that on what is now a seven-year-old layout.



DFF

[mu26aeh]

Those spikes could also be used around the perimeter.  No leaning against my railroad !