Intermodal Operations on the Geneva Subdivision

[rochsub]

Intermodal action at Global 3 on the Union Pacific Railroad Geneva Subdivision.

[Bill H]

Daryl:
I will have to complain  a bit about the quality of the representation of the layout and Global 3 as seen in the video. Group, we had an op session on his layout last Saturday and honestly, Daryl's layout looks and runs better that it does in the video. Kudo's to Daryl and thanks for a great op session.

Kind regards,
Bill

[jagged ben]

It's a very nice looking yard and layout and rolling stock.  But I have to quibble with the way each car has a matching set of containers.  On real stacktrains all the containers would be much more randomized.  It jars me out of being into an otherwise impressive scene.  Call me an intermodal nerd.

[nkalanaga]

"On real stacktrains all the containers would be much more randomized"

On most international trains, yes.  I quite often see solid trains, or blocks in a train, of one owner's domestic containers.  J B Hunt in particular is very common on NS in the Kenova, WV area.

[jagged ben]

"On real stacktrains all the containers would be much more randomized"

On most international trains, yes.  I quite often see solid trains, or blocks in a train, of one owner's domestic containers.  J B Hunt in particular is very common on NS in the Kenova, WV area.

Yes, certain trains will have such a preponderance of a company's containers that they'll fill up whole multi-unit cars just out of probablility.  But that isn't the same as the trains being 'blocked' for certain companies' containers by the railroad.  And having the containers sorted by car would be even another thing.    To my knowledge the railroads generally don't do that, any more for domestic boxes than for international, although it's true you'll often (but not always) see those two general categories separated.  The whole idea of intermodal is that containers and trailers are loaded at regional facilities and thus individual cars don't generally need to be switched in classification yards.  So you have longer cuts of either 53 wells, or 40ft wells, or a mix, that get loaded with the same size containers more or less as randomly as trucks arrive at ramps.

Some exceptions I'm aware of:
- BNSF serves some facilities that are solely for UPS, and you'll see blocks of blank white UPSZ containers out of those facilities.  I'm not aware of anything similar on the UP though.
- The K-Line 'Powerpack' generator for refrigerated containers will get its own 5-unit well car filled with 1 Powerpack and 9 K-Line reefers.  That's the only example I can think of where containers from one company would be deliberately sorted into a single car.

Even when there are patterns in trains, you don't see separation car by car. 

Darryl didn't explain how it was determined which cars were to be dropped off and picked up in the video.  I would be interested to actually learn more about UP's intermodal operations around Illinois where I believe they have multiple intermodal ramps.

[transitionalman]

"On real stacktrains all the containers would be much more randomized"

Yes, that is most often true now.....but not back in the 1980s and 1990s when dedicated trains were run for companies: APL/APC, SeaLand, K-Line, OOCL, OSK, NYK and Maersk were all trains that I have witnessed that had almost 100% containers for that company.  I still see, from time to time some fairly solid OOCL, MSC, JB Hunt and Schneider blocks on the BNSF.

[wcfn100]

Call me an intermodal nerd.

Got to be right first. 





Whole train was J.B. Hunt.

Jason

[Bill H]

Have to agree with Jason. I only know what I see and I usually see long blocks of the same containers rolling thru Atlanta. Of course, that may not related to either the era or location of Daryl's layout, but I do remember that prior to moving to the Atlanta area Daryl lived a few miles from a very nice rail fanning area, so I would guess he models what he saw and remembers.

Kind regards,
Bill

[James Costello]

Whole train was J.B. Hunt.

Hunt is still perhaps the only likely scenario that this would occur and it's solely because of their size.

As of early 2019, Hunt had nearly 100,000 53' dry intermodal containers in their fleet - more than twice that of UMAX, EMP and Hub Group (35-45k each) and more than 4x that of Schneider. You could combine #2 and #3 and still not cover their fleet. They make up roughly a 1/3 of the 53' domestic container fleet.

Full train loads of Hunt containers are fairly common - I've caught several on BNSF myself.

 

[wcfn100]

Hunt is still perhaps the only likely scenario that this would occur and it's solely because of their size.

No argument from me. 

Jason

[eric220]

In my area, trains coming into or out of the Port of Oakland are usually pretty mixed up.

[jagged ben]

Got to be right first. 

Whole train was J.B. Hunt.

Jason

And if you want to make jabs like that, you need something better than a strawman argument.  Trains made up of mostly or all one company are not what's being modeled here.  ( Also JB Hunt doesn't run on UP, with some very rare exceptions that certainly are nothing like that train.)    In this video Daryl is modeling a train with a bunch of  different container companies.  The train he is modeling in this video would be something like this or this or this.   (Not quite sure if he's going for a certain era, but the point stands regardless.)  And while there is certainly justification for some solid Pacer Stacktrain at the Global III facility, if you look at the end of that cut of cars, you don't find that the CSX containers are segregated by multi-unit car. 

Point being, the Hub Group, EMP, UMAX, and XPO should be mixed up a bit, and probably the K-line and APL as well.

As I said earlier, I would be all ears for more info on prototype intermodal operations in Illinois.  The title of this video was a bit of a tease!  Again, really nice looking yard the way it's coming along, but there wasn't actually much on operations.

[jagged ben]

"On real stacktrains all the containers would be much more randomized"

Yes, that is most often true now.....but not back in the 1980s and 1990s when dedicated trains were run for companies: APL/APC, SeaLand, K-Line, OOCL, OSK, NYK and Maersk were all trains that I have witnessed that had almost 100% containers for that company.  I still see, from time to time some fairly solid OOCL, MSC, JB Hunt and Schneider blocks on the BNSF.

Even in those days the containers weren't homogeneous.   Note that because the first stack cars only had 40ft wells, it was relatively rare for top and bottom containers in the same well to match, as 40ft containers would be put in bottom wells where they fit and the then 45 and 48ft containers would be put on top of them.

[eja]

Anyone else think stack trains are boring, regardless of the container mix?

YMMV

[JanesCustomTrain]

@jagged ben

How about this one, even the engine has the same colors.   

Jane