Another CR layout design study

[Ed Kapuscinski]

In the continuing theme of "what should I do with my basement", here's another alternative take.

This is a layout based on Conrail's "Reading Cluster" that they inherited from the Reading (and a few other anthracite roads) and eventually sold off to the Reading and Northern.

I'm calling it the "Tudor Branch" because originally it was designed to fit on two doors (although that changed early on).

Here's some inspiration: http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/OnLocationWithConrail/HardCoalCountry. I know, the thumbnails aren't working right now, but the map version is handy: http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/OnLocationWithConrail/HardCoalCountry/map

The general idea is... two different jobs work out of West Cressona yard: one to St Nick and one to the other industries. The St Nick job handles the anthracite traffic to both the St Nick breaker (well, the remnants of it) and Blaschak Coal as well as the Goodspring Branch. The other handles the two other industries.

I may add a little more to it too since this is a just a first draft. I really like the idea of adding the grain thing at Weigh Scales (gotta send those new ScaleTrains hoppers somewhere...).

Here's the plan. The red lines are walls. The green line is the access area to laundry and the stairs. It can be occupied by people but not layout.

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Here are some reference photos.

Goodspring:
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-and-9527-shove-a-cut-of-empty-coal-hoppers-back-to-the-loadout-at-Good-Spring-PA-on-M
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-drops-downgrade-after-spotting-some-empties-at-Good-Spring-PA-on-May-12-1988

Mt Carmel Jct:
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-and-a-bunch-of-other-MP15s-on-WHSN-switch-the-paper-plant-at-Mt-Carmel-Jct-487

St Nick & Blaschak
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9421-at-the-St-Nick-Breaker
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-and-local-WHSN11-working-the-St-Nick-breaker-on-June-7-1987
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-and-local-WHSN11-at-the-New-St-Nicholas-breaker-on-June-7-1987
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-9625-9621-and-more-begin-their-Enola-odyssey-at-St-Nicholas-PA-521987

Clark Feeds at Weigh Scales
http://conrailphotos.thecrhs.org/Images/CR-9627-with-WHSN03-switching-Clark-Feeds-at-Weigh-Scales-PA-on-April-29-1987

I love the fact that it's almost ALL run with SW1500s and MP15DCs.

[Chris333]

Why not around the walls?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Why not around the walls?

A couple reasons:
1. The walls aren't really that great due to the gas meter bump and the loss of them to the "green zone".
2. I wanted to see if I could do something interesting in the middle of the room.
3. I might want to save them for other uses.
4. In order to do continuous run around the walls I need big blobs at the end.

[mmagliaro]

I can't read the dimension numbers alongside the benchwork, but I assume those are 1 foot squares, so the benchwork is about 36" deep.  That means your bigger "turn-around" curves are something like 15-16" radius?   Since you are putting the whole thing out in the middle of the room and allowing human access from all sides (very handy for that yard that's in the corner!), I'd make the two legs of the "L" wider to allow for broader curves.  What the heck?  You've got the room, and there's no "reach" problem.  You may only be thinking about short 4-axle diesels now, but who knows what you'll run in the future.

Nobody lies on their deathbed saying, "I wish I spent more time at the office" and nobody builds a layout and says, "Gee, I wish I used sharper curves"

Will there be any backdrop down the middle of the layout separating one side from the other?

[Chris333]

The blobs do suck. Is there room in the green area for a continuous running thin shelf and staging?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I can't read the dimension numbers alongside the benchwork, but I assume those are 1 foot squares, so the benchwork is about 36" deep.  That means your bigger "turn-around" curves are something like 15-16" radius?   Since you are putting the whole thing out in the middle of the room and allowing human access from all sides (very handy for that yard that's in the corner!), I'd make the two legs of the "L" wider to allow for broader curves.  What the heck?  You've got the room, and there's no "reach" problem.  You may only be thinking about short 4-axle diesels now, but who knows what you'll run in the future.

That is a VERY good idea. Originally I had invisioned using doors, but if I won't be (which I probably wouldn't be if I did this) I might as well because there IS room for it.

Will there be any backdrop down the middle of the layout separating one side from the other?

I'm not sure exactly how I'd do it. Either a fixed backdrop of some fashion or the same approach I used on both the Kidney and parts of Windsor St: dense enough and tall enough trees that the other side is effectively screened.

[OldEastRR]

There are other alignment angles for layouts beside 90 or zero degrees relative to the walls. A blob stuck into the upper right corner but with approach tracks at 45 degrees from the corner would allow easy access to that entire curve. Do that with the upper-right section of the layout; the lower blob can stay where it is.

[learmoia]

Around the walls doesnt mean attached to the walls.  You could still do aroud the walls modular and do free standing around the green area with a gate/duck under..

But the current design is acceptable as well.. If the Green zone e is acceptable living area, you could hug the green zone closer to give more room around the layout.

The only other comment would be to try to even out the spacing between towns.. (unless 2 towns are geographically close in prototype).

The island design lends itself to a simple branch line operation.

[learmoia]

Or.. Move the yard down on the left side.. (stub end most of it).. have one or 2 tracks make the curve..the put St. NICK around the corner on the right end. 

~Ian

[Dave V]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with the others...  I'm a convert.  A cockpit design really does beat the island-style hands down.  Even if you don't anchor it to the walls...  Hell, make a cockpit out of doors, but just ditch the "blobs."  The blobs suck for so many reasons...curvature limitations, scenery limitations, etc.

Besides, who doesn't love saying "cockpit?"

[Chris333]

On my HOn30 layout it is just about impossible to take a photo of that curved trestle without getting the back ground in the way. I was thinking if this was around the walls that trestle would be in a corner and much better to photograph.

But I have a breaker box in my way... in fact here is a pic of that trestle with the breaker box lurking:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3DMb9b3UEeGSYLXe6

Previously I had built out around the box so I could still stand up behind a backdrop and get to the breakers, but it took up a lot of space. This was an old plan for a layout. In the lower right that triangle was the space for the breaker box:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vnHKmkCM88beHyRm9

It would be great if I could just snap my fingers and lower the box about 3 feet, but that is a lot of wires to move and probably very expensive.

[mmagliaro]

On my HOn30 layout it is just about impossible to take a photo of that curved trestle without getting the back ground in the way. I was thinking if this was around the walls that trestle would be in a corner and much better to photograph.

But I have a breaker box in my way... in fact here is a pic of that trestle with the breaker box lurking:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3DMb9b3UEeGSYLXe6

Previously I had built out around the box so I could still stand up behind a backdrop and get to the breakers, but it took up a lot of space. This was an old plan for a layout. In the lower right that triangle was the space for the breaker box:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vnHKmkCM88beHyRm9

It would be great if I could just snap my fingers and lower the box about 3 feet, but that is a lot of wires to move and probably very expensive.

Can you put a backdrop in front of the breaker box, so the view of your layout from that trestle would be "pretty" and it wouldn't even be seen in the background?  If access to the breaker panel is an issue, you could make that section of backdrop sit in a piece of wood with some slots in it, or attach to the back of the layout base with magnets, or some other such trick so that it could be removed easily.

[MichaelWinicki]

Ed,

Can I ask what your 3 goals are for this layout?

[squirrelhunter]

I like the overall concept- this looks manageable, the prototype is interesting and different, and the scope of operations seems like it will hold the operators interest without being too busy.

That said, I have a few constructive comments-
It seems like the crews at Goodspring and Mt Carmel might end up on top of each other with the way the spur for the Goodspring breaker is laid out. If it came off the curve on the St Nick side it might give more separation between the crews and scenes. I don't know if that will make the breaker scenes too bunched up though.

I think it might be a good idea to consider moving the industries at Mt Carmel and Minersville towards the turnback loop slightly, to give a little more separation between the breaker scenes and the other town scenes.

My last though/suggestion would be to have a hill/ridge/mine tailings pile run all the way down the corner of the layout between Goodspring and Mt Carmel as a view block. It seems from the CRHS photos and the RBMN map I looked at that a lot of these lines are stub end branches. So perhaps rather than having the continuous loop line go through the ridge with a proper tunnel portal, maybe have the tracks totally disappear before they get to the ridge- "those decrepit tracks may not be in use anymore, and they disappear up the valley". I guess from the photos and descriptions of the area, it seems like it would be a big help to really sell that each of these scenes is really isolated from each other.

[Dave V]

I totally get the allure of sticking HCDs together.  I did it myself, LOL.  But unless you plan to PCS (Permanent Change of Station) every two years, it's the worst way to use that space.  Absolutely the worst.

You absolutely can make a much more interesting layout with a much better use of that space and still make it sectional/portable.  You're just going to have to decide: lift-out or duck-under?