Looking for 1 pilot wheel for a Jameco LTD 4-6-2 Brass ATSFClass 3400 pacific

[alhoop]

My first and only brass steamer needs one pilot wheel - 33 " scale  dia with a 0.150 bore.
For a loco that has probably been sitting up for the last 40-50 years this one runs almost as
good as the new run of  Bachmann 2-8-0's - and almost as quite. Heavy booger and looks good
too from 3 feet.
Don't know where to post this so I will put it here and hope it gets some looks before it is moved
to obscurity.
Jameco LTD Brass ATSF class 3400 4-6-2.

Thanks
Al

[peteski]

My first and only brass steamer needs one pilot wheel - 33 " scale  dia with a 0.150 bore.
For a loco that has probably been sitting up for the last 40-50 years this one runs almost as
good as the new run of  Bachmann 2-8-0's - and almost as quite. Heavy booger and looks good
too from 3 feet.
Don't know where to post this so I will put it here and hope it gets some looks before it is moved
to obscurity.
Jameco LTD Brass ATSF class 3400 4-6-2.

Thanks
Al

0.150 bore?  You didn't specify units, and it makes no sense to me. Couldn't be 0.15". Way too large. Couldn't be 0.015" (too small).  Or maybe 1.5mm (not 0.150 something)?

Good luck either way.  Have you thought of retrofitting one of the many different 33" replacement wheelsets on the market?  Just grind the pointed axles down flush with the wheel face. Or maybe NWSL would have a wheelset that would work for you?

[randgust]

Yeah, once we get some dimensions this will probably work better.

My first suggestion is to find a wheel you like - and go with one that has smaller flanges because the clearances under the cylinder (on the front) are deceptively tight.  Get one with a SMALLER axle, then find a good drill bit for the axle size you want.   Drill the wheel out, then make the drill bit shaft into the new axle, cut off with an abrasive disk.

I also have had issues with the original metal pilot wheel swinging around and shorting out on the cylinder on the inside edge.   Anything much tighter than 13" you want to consider a plastic wheelset and/or smaller flanges.   I ended up grinding off a LOT of the cylinder on the inside to be able to get it to run reliably on my 11" reverse loop.

After rebuilding mine ("the Junker Jamco" thread here) I'm in complete sympathy.   If you haven't already looked at that thread, go search for it.   But yeah, with the original motor, it's lifting 7 Microtrains and Rivarossi heavyweights up a 2% grade and around a 13" radius curve, running very smoothly - but it took that replacement tender to really fix the pickup issues.

[alhoop]

0.150 bore?  You didn't specify units, and it makes no sense to me.



Good luck either way.  Have you thought of retrofitting one of the many different 33" replacement wheelsets on the market?  Just grind the pointed axles down flush with the wheel face. Or maybe NWSL would have a wheelset that would work for you?

Makes no sense to me either, Pete. the axle diameter is 0.060". I was thinking of the metal tire
which does have a center hole of 0.160". I've done something similar to what randgust suggests in the above post, I filed down the tread and flange on a regular metal wheel from the 1960's
and am trying to get the center hole to 0.160" and have the wheel run true.

If I can't get the above to work I will take your or randgusty's suggestion- the wheels are somewhat smaller than a 33" wheel.
Al

[peteski]

Makes no sense to me either, Pete. the axle diameter is 0.060". I was thinking of the metal tire
which does have a center hole of 0.160". I've done something similar to what randgust suggests in the above post, I filed down the tread and flange on a regular metal wheel from the 1960's
and am trying to get the center hole to 0.160" and have the wheel run true.

If I can't get the above to work I will take your or randgusty's suggestion- the wheels are somewhat smaller than a 33" wheel.
Al

Oh, the 0.160" (Or is it 0.150"?) hole in the wheel could be for the plastic insulating sleeve that the axle fits into.  Still, a bore of 0.150" seems awfully large in a N scale 33"wheel.  0.150" is 24 N scale inches!  I would also expect that the sleeve would only be on one side (since in many brass locos, all the loco's wheels pick up power from one track).

Hmm . . . I just re-read your post and you said that 0.150" is the diameter at the wheel's tire?  If so, that is how you measure wheel's diameter. Not at the flange!  If that is the case then you need a 24" diameter wheel!  Is that correct for that loco?  I'm thoroughtly confused now.

BTW, all the FVM replacement wheels I have use 1.5mm (0.060") axles.

[nickelplate759]

...

BTW, all the FVM replacement wheels I have use 1.5mm (0.060") axles.

The FVM axles are 1.5mm, but the wheel bore is smaller (don't remember how much smaller).  The axle is shouldered.

[alhoop]

No, it's late - 0.150" is correct - the center part of the tire goes completely through( see first photo)
Second photo is the rough tire I'm trying to make -blurry but you can see the hole is almost 4mm or 0.150" approx.

[peteski]

Ah, now I understand - thanks Al!  Good luck on finding a wheel like that!  It reminds me of the wheels used on European diesel locos (from Arnold or Minitrix), but those are much larger diameter.    It also looks similar to the wheels in early Atlas/Roco freight cars, but those were undersized (probably because of the huge flanges they had).

Unless you are bent on trying to preserve the original look, I still say it would be much easier to replace both wheelsets with something contemporary (like FVM wheels).

[alhoop]

.......

Unless you are bent on trying to preserve the original look, I still say it would be much easier to replace both wheelsets with something contemporary (like FVM wheels).

Pete - I think that is the way I will go. Thanks for your help and good nite!!
AL
PS Randy, I followed your Junker Jamco thread as you wrote it- very interesting.

[mmagliaro]

I think the pilot wheels on the old Altas/Rivarossi steam, like the 4-6-2, are undersized like that.  They were small because of the big flanges and because they had to clear the underside of the frame and the cylinders.  That's probably the same reason they are so small on that brass model.

I just measured the wheels on the Rivarossi 4-6-2.  The metal tread diameter .157"  The plastic hub inside the "rim" is only .120".  Axle diameter is .039 (1mm).  So it doesn't match what you have, but the metal tread is really close.   If it's of any use, let me know.

[mmagliaro]

One more note, and then I'll shut up. You said these were 33" wheels, but were "somewhat smaller" than a 33" wheel. Fox Valley and NWSL both sell 28" wheelsets with 1.5mm diam axles. If you grind off and file the axle points, that seems like it would be close to what you have on that engine.

[ChristianJDavis1]

I think the pilot wheels on the old Altas/Rivarossi steam, like the 4-6-2, are undersized like that.  They were small because of the big flanges and because they had to clear the underside of the frame and the cylinders.  That's probably the same reason they are so small on that brass model.

I just measured the wheels on the Rivarossi 4-6-2.  The metal tread diameter .157"  The plastic hub inside the "rim" is only .120".  Axle diameter is .039 (1mm).  So it doesn't match what you have, but the metal tread is really close.   If it's of any use, let me know.

Looking at the wheels, the Rivarossi 4-6-2 was the first thing I thought of, too. Maybe one of the other Rivarossi steamers or maybe even from Arnold or other vintage engines? I'm sure enough people here have bits and pieces from these old engines they could check.

[johnb]

silly idea...shapeways prints brass...

[narrowminded]

The FVM axles are 1.5mm, but the wheel bore is smaller (don't remember how much smaller).  The axle is shouldered.

They're 1.2mm where they press into the wheel.  That's the shouldered stop to set the gauge.

[narrowminded]

No, it's late - 0.150" is correct - the center part of the tire goes completely through( see first photo)
Second photo is the rough tire I'm trying to make -blurry but you can see the hole is almost 4mm or 0.150" approx.

I can machine that for you if you're stuck, brass or nickel silver.  I could also make the flanges to modern standards.  I should have the parts in hand that are supposed to mate.  PM if you want to pursue this.