Talc on a Shelf?

[ednadolski]

I found this satellite image of the Imerys Talc plant in Three Forks, Montana.  The plant is served by the MRL and looks like a great candidate subject for a shelf switching layout in N scale (although if built to scale, it would be 20 feet long, sans staging!).  The thing is, I have absolutely no clue as to how a talc plant operates or what kind of commodities might ship to/from it by rail.  I notice on the image that it seems to use mainly 50' hi-cube boxcars, and 4-bay mineral hoppers.  There also is what appears to be a grain transload that loads 3-bay covered hoppers.



(Right-click to view the image full-sized.)

I've annotated the pic with some comments, but these are just guesses. Can anyone with more knowledge of talc plant operations please look this over and comment about what kind of operations, rolling stock, loads, etc. would be appropriate on a shelf layout like this?

Thanks!
Ed

[eja]

Road trip ??

[Maletrain]

The track plan seems like a pretty boring operation for the investment of 20' of layout space.

[Bendtracker1]

The track plan seems like a pretty boring operation for the investment of 20' of layout space.

   Jeeze, really?

I think with a little bit of selective compression Ed, this could easily fit your proposed layout you posted the other day.
It actually has quite a bit of operational interest, as well as using a good variety of rolling stock to boot.

[Chris333]

Too bad they planted pine tree all along the road... Googles new "street view blocks". 

[wcfn100]

Here's your box car weathering.



Who would of thought a lockout would help so much...

Rolling stock at :18 plus a couple train shots later.

Jason

[nkalanaga]

Talc is a soft rock, and the plant basically grinds it to powder, the same stuff you buy in a drug store.  So, you would have rocks coming in, and powder going out.

This page https://www.kefidchina.com/solutions/talc-processing-line.html gives a nice flowchart for a processing plant, if you don't mind Victoria trying to chat with you, in Russian. 

Google "talc processing plant" and you'll get a few other sites, but this seems to be the best one for pictures.

[muktown128]

Talc is magnesium silicate and is used as an extender/filler pigment in paint, among other things.  One of he talcs used in our facility is filled into 50 lbs. bags or 900 lbs. supersacks.  It is probably available in other amounts and containers as well.

[nkalanaga]

One way of making flat paints is to add talc to the glossy stuff.  That's also why flat paints tend to hide more detail than gloss paint.

[Chris333]

One way of making flat paints is to add talc to the glossy stuff.  That's also why flat paints tend to hide more detail than gloss paint.

Flat paints hide detail? I'd say it's the other way around.

I could put 10 coats of Dullcote on a model and the details would still be crisp, but 1 coat of gloss and that fills in everything.

[nkalanaga]

Dullcote has the flattening agent, but no pigment, so it's thinner than most paints.  Also, being clear, even if it filled some small details, they'd still be visible.

[muktown128]

I'm not sure what flattening agent is used in Dullcote, but nearly all the coatings I've formulated in 30+ years use fumed silica pigment to lower gloss.  I've used some talc in lower gloss coatings, usually in combination with fumed silica.  Using only talc to lower gloss can result in burnishing.

Hiding or highlighting details depends more on how thick the coating layer is and how it flows out, which are application and formulation dependent, not necessarily whether it is high or low gloss.

Unless you are using very fine talc that disperses (mixes) easily into the gloss coating, I would not be surprised if fine details get covered.

[nkalanaga]

It sounds like paint has changed.  I read of the talc many years ago, in magazines from the 1950s and 60s, so it isn't surprising.  And, yes, some of that old paint would "burnish", developing shiny spots when handled, or otherwise rubbed.

[ednadolski]

The track plan seems like a pretty boring operation for the investment of 20' of layout space.

What would make it boring?   It can certainly be made to use a lot less than 20', tho I am intrigued to build something to (near-) proto proportions -- I think that leverages one of the key advantages of N scale.

That being said, I don't have 20' anyways, so I would have to make the concession to reality

I think with a little bit of selective compression Ed, this could easily fit your proposed layout you posted the other day.
It actually has quite a bit of operational interest, as well as using a good variety of rolling stock to boot.

Yes, it should be pretty straightforward to compress -- just shorten the track and structures in the appropriate places.  (I'm not much of a structure builder, so the latter sounds good to me -- esp. considering that this particular plant is quite large and complex  )

Too bad they planted pine tree all along the road... Googles new "street view blocks". 

I guess the town's people got tired of always looking at that enormous plant.   Probably not a good idea to have those on the front edge of a layout, where they would obscure just about everything

Here's your box car weathering.

Thanks!  Looks like an interesting project   

Who would of thought a lockout would help so much...

Apparently the company has now filed for Chapter 11, due to their involvement in litigation over asbestoes in the talc... 

https://ktvq.com/news/montana-news/2019/02/15/imerys-talc-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

you would have rocks coming in, and powder going out.

From the image, I'd guess that the talc ore (soapstone?) arrives in covered hoppers on the upper-left inbound track, and the cars are unloaded by dumping the ore into the unloading pit.  The plant then processes the ore into various grades of powder, which are shipped out either in covered hoppers (which are filled in the area tentatively tagged "Hopper Loading"), or in boxcars (after being packaged in various forms).  Boxcars and additional hoppers are brought in empty and leave loaded.

The grain operation on the lower left evidently would operate independently: empties in, loads out; with traffic varying seasonally.

Does any of that make sense?  I can't seem to find much more specific info about the actual rail car operations, but that's probably customized to each individual plant.

Ed

[nkalanaga]

It sounds quite reasonable to me.  I don't know where they mine the rock, and it is a form of soapstone, but I doubt that it's very far away.  Hauling rocks gets expensive, so the plant should be close to the mine.

in this case I found this one-line report:
"Yellowstone Mine (talc) is located ten miles south of Cameron and is operated by Imerys Talc America, Inc,  under the Luzenac Group"
Cameron is almost due south of Three Forks, on US 287.

The mine is a large open-pit operation, at Google Maps coords 45.075474, -111.729831, and there is no sign of a railroad anywhere in the area.  I would assume that the rock comes in by truck, not by rail.