Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!

[dem34]

So 3 trailers and a cab car, or 2 trailers + 1 cab? What power would be common in the recent era? I'm thinking about running them with an ALP-45DP, hopefully this isn't too far out there.

Going to be the great bubble burster, don't think the Comet IIs that these models are based on ever really ran with ALP45s though I see some stored ones in the same yards. Comet IIIs are visually pretty close though. Down the shore the shuttle trains during Summer are 6 Comet trailers 1 cab. Winter Shuttles are 2 trailers, 1 cab. (Most trains are a mix of different comet varieties between IIIs and Vs.)  NYC direct is 7-9 Bi-Level trailers, plus cab. Power in the modern era is mostly ALP45DPs, with semi common usage of GP40PH-2Bs and PL42s, on rare occasions salvaged F40PH-2CATs. But if you turn the clock back a little to the early 00s and get inventive you can pull them with GP40FH-2s and mix them with stripped down Arrow Trailers.

[kscessandriver]

Going to be the great bubble burster, don't think the Comet IIs that these models are based on ever really ran with ALP45s though I see some stored ones in the same yards. Comet IIIs are visually pretty close though. Down the shore the shuttle trains during Summer are 6 Comet trailers 1 cab. Winter Shuttles are 2 trailers, 1 cab. (Most trains are a mix of different comet varieties between IIIs and Vs.)  NYC direct is 7-9 Bi-Level trailers, plus cab. Power in the modern era is mostly ALP45DPs, with semi common usage of GP40PH-2Bs and PL42s, on rare occasions salvaged F40PH-2CATs. But if you turn the clock back a little to the early 00s and get inventive you can pull them with GP40FH-2s and mix them with stripped down Arrow Trailers.

I found at least one video on youtube of an ALP45 running into Raritan with a Comet IV coach, 5 Comet IIm coaches and a Comet V Cab car. So I don't feel awful running them behind an ALP45. May not be totally 100% correct, but it's not too far fetched either.

Thanks for the info, I know very little on NJT.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Since Rich started talking about operations on the NJT, I'll add what I remember and have read about Comet use on the MBTA.

1977
The MBTA purchased their first batch of Comet II commuter cars. These would be mixed in with de-motored RDCs, Boise Budd RDC rebuilds and Osgood Bradley coaches. There was no particular orientation of the coaches, but cab cars always faced East in push/pull service. The Comet II(BTC-1/CTC-1), Boise Budds (BTC-2/CTC-2) and de-motored RDCs had cab control versions. Motive power was a mess. trains from North Station ran with B&M geeps. South Station trains had ex PC or Amtrak E8s early on.

1978
The Blizzards of 1977 and 1978 quickly broke down what was left of the RDC fleet and everything was converted to conventional trains shortly thereafter. Rebuilds were stepped up, the first of the F40PH engines started to arrive and the Comets came online quickly. A small batch of GMO F3/7 units were rebuilt from the frame up with new electronics and shopped engines. Boilers were replaced with HEP generators that required bump-outs at the end of the car body. These were known as FP10s.

Early 1980's
Motive power settled on the PII F40PH and FP10s. Osgood Bradley cars started wearing out and traditional de-motored RDCs were retired. A second order for 5 PIII F40PHs was placed in 1980. Engines featured the "black eye" paint scheme where the windshield was painted black and wide yellow stripes adorned the ends of engines and cab cars. This scheme lasted until about 1985 or so. A few engines were painted in a reverse purple band. The purple is not the standard MBTA color and looks almost maroon. It was speculated these were not authorized by management and was the work of a rouge paint shop.

Mid 80's
Contracts went out to EMD and M-K for F40PH-2C (F40PHM-2C for the M-K units). These engines were about 8 feet longer than regular F40s to house a separate HEP engine.   With these new engines coming online, the FP10s were retired. Southern routes would get new equipment first, a pattern that lasts to this day. Additional orders for Bombardier Comet II (BTC-1A, BTC-1B/CTC-1A, CTC-1B) cars and Messerschmitt BTC-3/CTC-3 came online by 1988. These replaced the last of the RDC, Boise Budd and Osgood Bradley cars. I believe the MBB cars were the first to feature a bathroom in every car.

1990/1991
MBTA retired the very last OB, Budd RDC and rebuilds and FP10s, all relegated to North Station by this time. Kawasaki BTC-4/CTC-4 started production in 1990. These were the first bi-level commuter cars in the Boston area. Class lights started to be removed from the F40 fleet as well as changes in horns and bell positions.

1995
The first Comet II cars (BTC-1 and CTC-1) were rebuilt. All comet type cars would get a more thorough rebuild around 2009. the changes mostly included seat restoration, electrical work and removal of the marker lights on all cars except for the cab car ends. All cab cars feature ditch lights. Engines would follow by 1998.

1997
Second order of Kawasaki bi-level cars started to arrive. Heavily rebuilt GP40-2 (GP40MC) also arrived this year. These were ex-CN engines with lengthened frames and shared almost no body panels with their predecessors.

2001
Third order of Kawasaki cars arrives. Several F40PHs receive rebuilds.

2004
Former Ohio Central GP40-3 is purchased for MoW work. Prior to this, MoW work relied on first generation geeps that seldom worked.

2008/2009
All F40PH-2C engines are heavily rebuilt by this time. The EMD models were modified to match the look of the MK units. The rebuilds would be painted in the lightening scheme first seen on the GP40MC. All engines and cab cars loose rock guards. Fourth and final order for Kawasaki cars is placed. MBB cab cars rebuilt to coach only cars. MBTA receives 2 MP36PH-3C from Frontrunner. Two NRE 3GS21B engines join the MoW fleet.

2013/2014
Most F40PH engines scrapped or in storage. First order for Hyundai Rotem cars is placed. These are very similar to the Kawasaki cars before them. Deliveries for the MP40PH-3C, a first new car body design start in 2014. Kawasaki cars start major rebuilds.


Ok, so that's the basics of what equipment arrived when. So lets talk trains. Boston is divided into North Station/South Station. North handles everything on the former B&M tracks. South handles former NYC and NH trackage. Up until about 15 years ago, the south had a major advantage in track conditions and clearances. This led to the MBTA running newer equipment on the south first. For example, you would almost never see an FP10 and a Kawasaki car on the same train, even though there was a bit of an overlap. There was no rule as to what cars ran in which order until recently. Early on, the Kawasaki cars were sprinkled around the trains. Within the past 10 years, I have seen the Kawasaki cars become priories for cab cars. I believe this is due to additional collision protections on these cars. I think this was the reason why the MBB cars were relegated to trailer use before the Comet II were - they did not have collision posts.

Trains were always one engine on the west end and 5 cars including a cab control car facing east. During the 1990's trains running the Framingham/Worcester line would double up on off hour trains (eastbound at night, westbound in the morning). This would effectively be a 10 car commuter train with mid and end unit pushers. The second section would always be off limits. I believe newer stations are equipped to handle trains up to 7 cars long, but I have not seen any longer than 5. Except for cab cars, coaches would face any direction. Engines always nosed away from Boston.

Inbound stations are usually on the right with outbound platforms on the left. This changed frequently due to maintenance issues or just new traffic patterns. While 65 was the speed limit for the Boston Line, I don't think the commuter trains ever reached over 40, and that was only in some areas between Framingham and Worcester.

[nuno81291]

Bummer on the silver paint. I’d like to see samples of the HO models if anyone has any? I forgot to order mine

[brill27mcb]

So 3 trailers and a cab car, or 2 trailers + 1 cab? What power would be common in the recent era? I'm thinking about running them with an ALP-45DP, hopefully this isn't too far out there.

2 trailers + 1 cab. This was with the F40PH-2s in the early years. I'm not familiar with the more recent operations. My train will be all Comet IIs - I like the uniform appearance.

Now that I have the models, the paint looks OK to my eyes in person. Guess that's the advantage of not having macro-lens eyesight!

Rich K.

[peteski]

Now that I have the models, the paint looks OK to my eyes in person. Guess that's the advantage of not having macro-lens eyesight!

Rich K.

We all have our standards I guess.
Macro-lens eyesight?  LOL!  Far from it. I need to wear (dollar store) reading glasses when working/handling models, and Optivisor for close-up work.  When I received these cars I wasn't even wearing the reading glasses when I first took these models out of their box, and even with slightly blurry vision I immediately noticed the silver paint. It was all wrong.  It was way too bright and sparkly.  When I put on my Optivisor to look at the paint closely, that is when I observed the texture -- as if the paint was too "hot", causing fine crazing of the plastic. But it might also just be the texture of the paint itself.

These cars should have graysh-silver look of dull aluminum.  Sure, "spray them with Dullcote" you can say. Well, it is not that easy as parts of the cars have to be masked, and/or windows pried out (they are glued in).  Plus the fact that I would have to do this to a fifty dollar car is not sitting well with me.  It would have been easy for Rapido to choose better matching paint for these, and I would nto have to do anything to make them look correct.  Yes, I'm ranting, but for a good reason.

[eja]

Plus the fact that I would have to do this to a fifty dollar car is not sitting well with me. 

Copy that loud and clear.

[CBQ Fan]

Mine arrived yesterday and the look great and roll extremely free!  Very pleased, may pick up a couple more. 

[peteski]

... Very pleased, may pick up a couple more.

Where? 

Actually, that brings up another point. If or when Rapido runs another batch, they will most likely use the "bad" silver paint again (so it matches the first run).   

[CBQ Fan]

Where? 

Actually, that brings up another point. If or when Rapido runs another batch, they will most likely use the "bad" silver paint again (so it matches the first run).   

Mine are Amtrak and I am very pleased with the paint. They match my Kato cars and engines perfectly.

[jagged ben]

Where? 

MBK and lombard still seem to have enough.  Didn't look elsewhere.

[peteski]

MBK and lombard still seem to have enough.  Didn't look elsewhere.

Amtrak or MBTA?

[peteski]

Mine are Amtrak and I am very pleased with the paint. They match my Kato cars and engines perfectly.

I also have the Horizon cars, and the paint is identical to what was used on Comets (makes sense since they are the same cars manufactured by Rapido at the same time).  It is as wrong for Amtrak as it is for MBTA.  Dull aluminum is the correct color.

Which Amtrak cars are you comparing the color to?  For example Amfleets are stainless steel (not dull aluminum), so shinier silver finish is expected on those.  Kato point is also much smoother and not sparkly.  But like I mentioned earlier, we all have our own standards. I guess I'm more picky than an average bear. 

[eja]

Mine are Amtrak and I am very pleased with the paint. They match my Kato cars and engines perfectly.

Any chance you could post a photo of the two cars ???


Thanks

[peteski]

Any chance you could post a photo of the two cars ???


Thanks

I already posted a partial photo of the Dinatte (sic) in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47243.msg724590#msg724590 and more photos in the message directly after that one.  The Amtrak Coach decoration-wise identical to the Dinette, with the windows arrangement identical to the Comet cars.  In the past I never realized that the Comet and Horizon cars have identical car bodies. Only the trucks are different.