Armature damage from alcohol?

[MK]

Thanks for immersing me in a sea of guilt, with images of numerous favorite engines... teats up and X's over their eyes... now stuck in my head forever.

And probably requiring some deep therapy for the next 50 years. 

[strummer]

Actually, it may clean better. Alcohol isn't really the solvent most people think it is, especially for petroleum based material. For instance, with the typical use of 91% alcohol to clean wheels by soaking a paper towel with it and running wheels across the towel, you will find that Goo Gone or other petroleum distillate type cleaner (and it IS the petroleum distillate that does the cleaning, not the orange) will work much better and with much less effort.

Doug

I will have to try that... 

Mark in Oregon

[mmagliaro]

As a neophyte model railroader back in the 70s, I'm pretty sure I murdered my Trix U30CG in this manner.  Hellbent to get it to run smoothly, I cleaned the wheels with Isopropyl, then decided that swabbing the commutator with the stuff would do just the trick.  It ran about two feet then the motor flamed out.  Being a nitwit, I decided that More was Better, so I did it again, and the thing didn't even budge.

Reading this thread makes me realize I've probably committed Lococide more times than I care to admit, having never bothered to understand the chemistry of the situation.

Thanks for immersing me in a sea of guilt, with images of numerous favorite engines... teats up and X's over their eyes... now stuck in my head forever.

Lee

Actually, Lee, rather than dissolving any coating, that sounds to me like you just ran it before the alcohol had completely evaporated, and it caught fire from the normal sparking at the commutator.  I remember people squirting alcohol straight into running motors to clean them out back in the 80s and 90s.  Sometimes, it actually worked because it would dissolve the crud in the commutator slots and the spinning armature would fling it out.  But sometimes the alcohol would briefly catch fire and that would be the end of the motor.

 

[strummer]

I will have to try that... 

Mark in Oregon

Ok, so I just tried Goo Gone; I used a 1948 American Flyer hopper as a test. I used it because it would photograph well, and I had just cleaned the wheels (using 99% alcohol) perhaps a week or so ago, and it hadn't been used since. Here is the result:




...  ...!!!

Now this means I've to go back and clean ALL my wheels (and track) in ALL my scales...     

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

Using alcohol for cleaning track or wheels is not a mortal sin.  It actually works well.  But if you were to use standard 70% rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol, than 30% if the liquid is water. Not very strong.  My friend has been using denatured alcohol for years (for track and wheel cleaning) and the results are good.  But denatured alcohol is full strength (99%).  Denatured alcohol is readily available and inexpensive. Just don't drink it. 

As far as chemicals go, Naphtha is a bit more of a health hazard than alcohol (for those who worry about this).

[DKS]

Using alcohol for cleaning track or wheels is not a mortal sin.  It actually works well.  But if you were to use standard 70% rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol, than 30% if the liquid is water. Not very strong.  My friend has been using denatured alcohol for years (for track and wheel cleaning) and the results are good.  But denatured alcohol is full strength (99%).  Denatured alcohol is readily available and inexpensive.

The problem with denatured alcohol is that it attacks many paints, which means it could affect the finish on painted wheels as well as painted plastic ties, etc.

[peteski]

The problem with denatured alcohol is that it attacks many paints, which means it could affect the finish on painted wheels as well as painted plastic ties, etc.

That is true, but Isopropyl alcohol can also attack paints (and clear coats like Dulcote), and Naphtha can attack enamel paints.  They're all solvents.  My friend has been using denatured alcohol to clean wheels and track for over 20 years, and the causality rate is very low. Yes, there were some spills which damaged finish on some weathered loco shells, but those were accidental, not occurring during normal cleaning operations.

Also no effect of any plastic used for ties or trucks. At least none that we have observed.  But of course there are many different types of plastic, so I can't say that is 100% safe. Like with e very chemical we use on our models - test compatibility before using.

[DKS]

That is true, but Isopropyl alcohol can also attack paints (and clear coats like Dulcote), and Naphtha can attack enamel paints.  They're all solvents.  My friend has been using denatured alcohol to clean wheels and track for over 20 years, and the causality rate is very low. Yes, there were some spills which damaged finish on some weathered loco shells, but those were accidental, not occurring during normal cleaning operations.

Also no effect of any plastic used for ties or trucks. At least none that we have observed.  But of course there are many different types of plastic, so I can't say that is 100% safe. Like with e very chemical we use on our models - test compatibility before using.

I've not seen alcohols of any type attack any plastic that I've seen, but paint is another matter. And it makes no difference if it's an accident or not, damage is still damage, so be aware of the risks of alcohols around paints. I'd also thoroughly test Goo-Gone (or any other cleaner/solvent) on paints as well before using it for wheel and track cleaning.

 

[C855B]

... so be aware of the risks of alcohols around paints. ...

Abso-f'in-lutely! I got a rude reminder of this last night with the 91% iso I use as a water-wetter for ballasting. I went to wipe up a bit of overspray on my soil under-paint, and waddayaknow, I was wiping off the paint, too. It was just a light misting!

[Doug G.]

Mark,

Is that an American Flyer 640 hopper?

Doug

[Chris333]

So with the Photon and 3D printing... they say to use 99% IPA alcohol, but I use 91%. Somewhere I read that 99% will absorb moisture from the air until it is back down to 91%.

Is this the same with denatured alcohol?

[C855B]

Equilibrium is reached at 95.5%, apparently. So there is some value to 99%, especially if you keep the lid on when not using it.

[strummer]

Mark,

Is that an American Flyer 640 hopper?

Doug

Doug

Indeed it is; like (probably) most of us, I have trains in several scales. And (also probably like most of us) S scale seems to be the "perfect" size. Just a shame it never really "caught on". I have some pretty nice early (immediate post-war) examples; the engines run REALLY well, and are very easy to work on... 

Mark in Oregon

[wm3798]

... they say to use 99% IPA alcohol...

I prefer my IPA to be around 7.5%, and after a few of them it doesn't matter if the wheels are clean or not!

[MK]

Damn!  Anti-gravity beer!  It doesn't spill out!