Unexpected Disappointment with an ESU Decoder

[davefoxx]

Well, here it is: the ESU "Essential Sound Unit" decoder.



The one good thing about it is that it is a 21-pin decoder, so it couldn't be easier to replace.  I hope to get to the LHS tomorrow and purchase the v5.0 that's showing in stock.  If so, I'll have this GP9R back together tomorrow afternoon, purring like a good first generation locomotive should.

DFF

[peteski]

Interesting.
The Flash memory is the same for both types of decoder: 32Mbit serial Flash memory.  Just the package is different.

The microcontrollers are different between standard V4 Micro decoder and the stripped one.
V4 Micro uses https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATmega644PA
And the stripped decoder uses https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATSAMD21G17

Actually the stripped decoder's microcontroller has more internal program memory and more internal RAM. But each uses different type of a CPU architecture. Then there are also other differences between them. At a quick glance at the specs it seems that the stripped decoder's microcontroller is more feature-rich than the standard V4 Micro, but those features might not but useful for what is needed for a DCC sound decoder.

Both microcontrollers also seem to still be in production. The price for the one used in V4 decoders is less than $4 and the price for the stripped down decoder microcontroller is less than $2. 

[reinhardtjh]

Pete, In my post I said the Essential Sound Unit (ESU) decoder was a dumbed down version of the LokSound V4 -I was wrong. It's based on the V5 (see the 5.0R1 on the PC board) and was actually the first instance of the V5 architecture available.  That's why the MCU seems more advanced than the V4 and Select MCU, because it is.  You're probably right in that the major difference between the ESU and the V5 is the firmware on the decoder.  If one knew the secret incantation you might be able to flash it with the V5 microcode.  But memory might be a problem, the new V5 has 128Mbit vs 32Mbit in the V4 and this ESU decoder.

[jdcolombo]

Bmws cheaper car is the 1 series, most minis cost the same as a 3 now a days, and are almost as big as one too!

In the US, it's the 2-series now.  And the Mini isn't a Toyota Corolla by a long shot - including the price.

John C.

[davefoxx]

I'm hoping to get out of the office by noon today, and, if my luck holds, I'll have an ESU 21-pin v5.0 in hand later today.  Stay tuned.

DFF

[Jbub]

I'm hoping to get out of the office by noon today, and, if my luck holds, I'll have an ESU 21-pin v5.0 in hand later today.  Stay tuned.

DFF

Unfair!  You HO guys get all the new fun stuff first

[davefoxx]

Unfair!  You HO guys get all the new fun stuff first

Not today!  The LHS did not have the v5.0 decoders in stock, despite the inventory level on their website.  No biggie.  He gave me a 10% discount on a 21-pin LokSound Select, which is what is in most of my fleet anyway, so we're good!

The decoder has been installed, and I'm downloading the sound data as we speak.

DFF

[Point353]

In the US, it's the 2-series now.  And the Mini isn't a Toyota Corolla by a long shot - including the price.

Corolla prices start at $19500. MINI prices start at $21900. Not that much difference.
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/corolla/
https://www.edmunds.com/mini/hardtop-2-door/
A BMW 2-series is at least $35K.
https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/2-series/

[davefoxx]

I have programmed the new LokSound Select decoder on the LokProgrammer and have set it up to match the fleet (some function remapping and much sound effects modifications) and for recognition on my ESU CabControl system (RailCom and icons).  I’m breaking in the locomotive and will speed match it thereafter.  It runs 100% better.  It can now run on speed step 1 (default is at 3) where before it couldn’t do that, despite speed step 1 then being set at 6 on the Essential Sound Unit decoder.

This confirms that ESU really goofed on the Essential Sound Unit decoder.  Oh, and the end result is that I spent about $210.00 for the locomotive and the redecoderization.  It could have been worse, but I really like this first generation in NS paint on the fleet for interchange with the SBD and the A&R on my layout.

DFF

[Point353]

Oh, and the end result is that I spent about $210.00 for the locomotive and the redecoderization.  It could have been worse, but I really like this first generation in NS paint on the fleet for interchange with the SBD and the A&R on my layout.

In hindsight, you could have saved $40 by buying the DC version of the loco.
But, then you would have had to spend perhaps $10-20 for a speaker, so you really didn't lose all that much by getting the DCC+Sound equipped version even though you ended up replacing the decoder.

[davefoxx]

In hindsight, you could have saved $40 by buying the DC version of the loco.
But, then you would have had to spend perhaps $10-20 for a speaker, so you really didn't lose all that much by getting the DCC+Sound equipped version even though you ended up replacing the decoder.

Yeah, plus the time to install the speaker and enclosure, too.  Like I wrote, it could have been worse.  The little GP9 runs pretty well.  Here it is consisted with a Southern GP38-2 in a crappy video that I might edit later . . . maybe:

DFF

[jdcolombo]

This confirms that ESU really goofed on the Essential Sound Unit decoder.  Oh, and the end result is that I spent about $210.00 for the locomotive and the redecoderization.  It could have been worse, but I really like this first generation in NS paint on the fleet for interchange with the SBD and the A&R on my layout.

DFF

This is why I really wish all manufacturers would make "DCC sound ready" units and just leave the sound decoder/speaker to us.  I've probably torn out $1000-worth of sound decoders from various Bachmann, BLI and Athearn locos so I could replace the decoder with an ESU LokSound and put in a decent-sounding speaker.   And there are still people who prefer regular DC operation, or no-sound-dcc.  Let me buy a DC engine, but one that has the frame milled appropriately for a sound decoder/speaker setup.  It seems to me that's the best of all worlds for everyone, except the people who want to plunk the engine down out of the box and hear noise.  OK - for them, do a complete sound-equipped version with a crappy decoder.  Please don't make me pay for the crappy decoder.

John C.

[railnerd]

Interesting.
The Flash memory is the same for both types of decoder: 32Mbit serial Flash memory.  Just the package is different.

The microcontrollers are different between standard V4 Micro decoder and the stripped one.
V4 Micro uses https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATmega644PA
And the stripped decoder uses https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/ATSAMD21G17

Actually the stripped decoder's microcontroller has more internal program memory and more internal RAM. But each uses different type of a CPU architecture. Then there are also other differences between them. At a quick glance at the specs it seems that the stripped decoder's microcontroller is more feature-rich than the standard V4 Micro, but those features might not but useful for what is needed for a DCC sound decoder.

Both microcontrollers also seem to still be in production. The price for the one used in V4 decoders is less than $4 and the price for the stripped down decoder microcontroller is less than $2. 

Interesting that the "cheap" decoder is using an ARM processor (more powerful).  If the V5 decoder also switched to ARM, you might go crazy and try reprogramming the economy decoder.

-Dave

[davefoxx]

Interesting that the "cheap" decoder is using an ARM processor (more powerful).  If the V5 decoder also switched to ARM, you might go crazy and try reprogramming the economy decoder.

-Dave

I tried reprogramming what the Essential Sound Fit decoder could do before I yanked it out of the GP9.  Its options are very limited, even after the upgrade to its software with the LokProgrammer.  It sucks.

DFF

[railnerd]

I tried reprogramming what the Essential Sound Fit decoder could do before I yanked it out of the GP9.  Its options are very limited, even after the upgrade to its software with the LokProgrammer.  It sucks.

DFF

I didn't mean using the lokProgrammer.  As a nerd, I meant using something like a Segger JTAG/SWD programmer to suck the code out of a V5 and blast it into the other decoder.  This would require someone like Peteski to solder the SWD connections to the ARM chip.

-Dave