Vintage N Scale....

[OldEastRR]

I have the body, motor and various other parts of a RR C-liner if an67ybody wants it. It's not complete, and I'd have to see if the motor runs....

[DKS]

Following is a list of Atlas A1G locos: http://www.irwinsjournal.com/a1g/a1glocos/
I've had several of them and they never ran as well or for as long as contemporary products from Arnold-Rapido or Con-Cor/Kato.
Where would you be without any of them?

The 1st gen products, crappy as they were, became the bedrock under an industry that's grown to become the second-most popular modeling scale. If those brave souls hadn't at least tried, would be where we are now?

[Point353]

The 1st gen products, crappy as they were, became the bedrock under an industry that's grown to become the second-most popular modeling scale. If those brave souls hadn't at least tried, would be where we are now?

Based upon my experience with a few Atlas A1G-era locos, that bedrock seemed rather unstable.
I'd likely have given up on N scale if it wasn't for the other Arnold-Rapido or Con-Cor/Kato locos I also had at that time.
Something to contemplate is where Atlas might be today if they hadn't eventually partnered with Kato on diesel locos.

[peteski]

Based upon my experience with a few Atlas A1G-era locos, that bedrock seemed rather unstable.
I'd likely have given up on N scale if it wasn't for the other Arnold-Rapido or Con-Cor/Kato locos I also had at that time.
Something to contemplate is where Atlas might be today if they hadn't eventually partnered with Kato on diesel locos.

Considering that other companies moved production to China, and the Chinese model design was pretty much copied from Kato, Atlas would have been like it is now: Chinese-made, Kato-inspired mechanisms, with Atlas-designed shells, also made in China,

The Atlas/Kato collaboration did not last very long. Old-school RS-3, RS-11, then those horrible stretched Geeps.  Then few more Geeps and SDs using the low-friction design (which eventually became Chinese-made). At that time other manufacturers made Chinese copies of Kato's low-friction mechanism.

At least that is how I recall the timeline.

[Point353]

Considering that other companies moved production to China, and the Chinese model design was pretty much copied from Kato, Atlas would have been like it is now: Chinese-made, Kato-inspired mechanisms, with Atlas-designed shells, also made in China,

The Atlas/Kato collaboration did not last very long. Old-school RS-3, RS-11, then those horrible stretched Geeps.  Then few more Geeps and SDs using the low-friction design (which eventually became Chinese-made). At that time other manufacturers made Chinese copies of Kato's low-friction mechanism.

At least that is how I recall the timeline.

The Atlas/Kato collaboration lasted about a decade, beginning with the RS3 in 1983 and subsequently the RS11, RSD12, RSD4/5, the dimensionally challenged GP7/9, RS1, U25B, SD7/9, GP30 and GP35.
The new and improved Atlas GP7/9 models, with the "Chinese copy" mechanism, didn't appear until about 1995.
The Life-Like GP20, introduced in 1999, is the first loco I can recall from anyone other than Atlas with a "Chinese copy" mechanism.
The made-in-China Con-Cor locos of that time were made using tooling returned by Kato.
Do you recall any companies who were selling locos with "Chinese copy" mechanisms concurrent with the Atlas/Kato products?

[peteski]

The Atlas/Kato collaboration lasted about a decade, beginning with the RS3 in 1983 and subsequently the RS11, RSD12, RSD4/5, the dimensionally challenged GP7/9, RS1, U25B, SD7/9, GP30 and GP35.
The new and improved Atlas GP7/9 models, with the "Chinese copy" mechanism, didn't appear until about 1995.
The Life-Like GP20, introduced in 1999, is the first loco I can recall from anyone other than Atlas with a "Chinese copy" mechanism.
The made-in-China Con-Cor locos of that time were made using tooling returned by Kato.
Do you recall any companies who were selling locos with "Chinese copy" mechanisms concurrent with the Atlas/Kato products?

Thanks for completing the list - looks like I missed few models.  Other than Life-Like I don't recall any more Kato low-friction-truck mechanism copies (and I don't think any company coped the design Kato used on the original RS-3s and other locos with that type of mechanism.  I don't remember when Athearn or IM started making N scale diesels, but they don't really use the low-friction-truck design.   Then came FVM, and again they are not quite a Kato copy.  But Athearn, IM, FVM, Life-Like, and Scale Trains motors all seem to be based on Kato motors.  All those motors are probably all made by the same manufacturer.

I guess Spookshows website could be used to get a better timeline of when all those models were introduced.

[strummer]

I started this thread by focusing on the models made "way back when" of German prototypes, and how much better they were than the North American models made by the same manufacturers; I still stand by that opening statement, FWIW. 

My Arnold DB locos (both steam and diesel) run much better than do the FA and F9 I have by that same maker, yet all are about the same vintage. Same with Trix: I have a V200 that is miles better (in both looks and performance) than a similar-vintage F9. And those Roco DB diesels I have are over-all much better than the F9 I had by the same maker. Dunno if this means anything; just making an observation.

Now that we're talking Kato/Atlas and Chinese Atlas, I'll go out on a limb again: I find the performance of the Atlas Kato-built engines to be on par with that importer's later releases, even with the "low-friction" trucks. Of course, the newer Katos I have are perfect as well.

In the world of 3-rail O scale, there are different eras of manufacturing: (1945-1969), (1970-1988) and 1988 to now. Does the N scale world has a similar table? 1st, 2nd and current generation(s)...?

Mark in Oregon

[Doug G.]

I would say (1967 - 1983): (1983 - 1995): (1995 - present) for N scale.

Doug

[Point353]

I started this thread by focusing on the models made "way back when" of German prototypes, and how much better they were than the North American models made by the same manufacturers; I still stand by that opening statement, FWIW. 

I'd agree based upon my experience with this Arnold-Rapido loco:

[S Class]

Would the manufacturing origin have to do with the quality? European countries making models in Europe (I think the Italians subcontracted a bit to Yugoslavia) while the Chinese were still finding their feet as the manufacturing powerhouse we know today.

[Mark5]

I don't remember when Athearn or IM started making N scale diesels, but they don't really use the low-friction-truck design.

FWIW, IM uses Atlas trucks, at a minimum on the HTC truck equipped models.

[peteski]

FWIW, IM uses Atlas trucks, at a minimum on the HTC truck equipped models.

That's true, however Athearn marches to their ow drumbeat.  And doesn't IM use the low-friction truck design on their F-units?

[DKS]

And doesn't IM use the low-friction truck design on their F-units?

I can confirm that they do indeed.