Athearn Challenger Again

[rgengineoiler]

Athearn Challenger again!!!  Have only run it a couple of times since I got it back from repair from Athearn after they kept it for almost seven months.  Some of you probably remember my Good Grief Athearn thread.  It seemed ok when I got it back and that was in the hot summer season when I am busy on the acreage.  Fired it up this evening and it took two hops, and shorted out the layout.  Checked it over looking for any junk that might have gotten in the power pickup areas.  Blew it out, no help at all.  Still shorts the layout.  All of my other Loco's run fine.

  Now I want to know who is inclined to fix it forever for a fee?  Athearn sure can't reliably accomplish this task.  I am about ready to sell it.  When you spend that kind of money on an N scale Challenger, surely it should preform.  I just don't know that I want Athearn to touch it.  It only has, at the most, 1 hour of running time since I got it back because of other projects I am working on.  This thing is brand new Junk!   Doug   

[delamaize]

The only thing that got fixed on my was the top speed.
It still pulls like crap. I thought I had it fixed, at home on my unitrack loop, I had it pulling 40 MT 40' boxcars and an atlas caboose. Got it out on N-trak, Nada, not even 20 MT boxcars. Mine in in pieces on my workbench right now. I'm pretty damn frustrated, thats for sure.

[jargonlet]

On mIne, the second set of drivers would quit turning and loco up. It was always intermittent. It seemed like they would lock up but never showed up when I looked at them. Everything seemed to be in order so I sent it back. They replaced both sets of driver assemblies as they said they were bad. It ran well when I got it back and I put a number of hours on them. It sat for about a year as I didn’t have a running layout. I recently put it on the tracks. The back set of drivers locked up and would spin freely under my finger but caused enough tension that it wouldn’t run on my new layout. I don’t have any faith in athearn fixing it properly so I sold it for parts. I feel your pain.

[basementcalling]

Ouch, maybe Kato should make one of these too?

[peteski]

  Fired it up this evening and it took two hops, and shorted out the layout.  Checked it over looking for any junk that might have gotten in the power pickup areas.  Blew it out, no help at all.  Still shorts the layout.  All of my other Loco's run fine.

Can you clarify "shorts out"?

Are you running it using DC or DCC?
When the problem happens, it actually shorts the left and right rail (like putting a quarter on the tracks) or it just stops, with the power still present on the track?

[delamaize]

On mIne, the second set of drivers would quit turning and loco up. It was always intermittent. It seemed like they would lock up but never showed up when I looked at them. Everything seemed to be in order so I sent it back. They replaced both sets of driver assemblies as they said they were bad. It ran well when I got it back and I put a number of hours on them. It sat for about a year as I didn’t have a running layout. I recently put it on the tracks. The back set of drivers locked up and would spin freely under my finger but caused enough tension that it wouldn’t run on my new layout. I don’t have any faith in athearn fixing it properly so I sold it for parts. I feel your pain.

That's one of the problems mine was having also, The tower gear can walk, and disengage the worm. Mine still does it also. I made my own fix for this using some small shims of styrine, and a part of a coupler spring....

[rgengineoiler]

Ok, I am Digitrax DCC.  By shorts out I mean that the Challenger shuts down the DCC system like putting a quarter across the tracks.  I take the Challenger off the track and the Digitrax system comes back on.  All of my other locomotives, many steamers and many diesels run just fine.  I should have bought 2 more BLI Mountains for just a little more money than spending the money on this junk Athearn Challenger.  Doug

[mmagliaro]

Since it started to move for an instant and then shorted out, I am inclined to think that either something jammed or a wire broke off and is touching somewhere.  I would do the following, in this order:

1. Make absolutely sure that all the drivers and rods are free - that you can wiggle the drivers all back and forth a little and you can wiggle all the rods a little with tweezers.  If anything is jammed, that has to be fixed before you can do anything else.

2. Pull the shell and see if any of that rat's nest of wiring they used in there has broken off.  See if any bare wires are touching anything.

3.  Pull the tender shell, unplug the decoder,  bypass it so track power goes straight to the motor and everything else is disconnected,  and run the engine on straight DC.   The FIRST RUN Athearn Challenger could be bypassed by:

- The decoder board pops out with 2 screws and disconnects with connectors.  No desoldering needed.
- jumper pins 1-2  and 4-5 on the 5-pin connector once you remove the board,
and that runs the DC track pickup straight to the motor.  Pin 3 is the headlight.

But I don't have a new one here to look at.  Although I'd assume the DCC connector in the tender hasn't changed, I don't know.

[peteski]

rgengineoiler: While I feel your pain, I also realize that between the Athearn Big Boys and Challengers (they share similar design), there are likely tens of thousands of these models out there and with  only few complaints, most of them are problem free (or at least usable).  Let's face it: somehow you ended up with a lemon.  Not your fault, and it is unfair, but it is what it is.

I would love to troubleshoot that model, but I have way too many projects lined up on my workbench and all around my workshop.

Max does have some good troubleshooting advice (of you so choose).

[mmagliaro]

....

I would love to troubleshoot that model, but I have way too many projects lined up on my workbench and all around my workshop.

...

I am in the same boat, otherwise I would have tossed my hat in the ring to fix it.  But if you are reasonably handy and can take the shells off and take some really close, sharp photos, I (or Peteski, or other skilled folks on here), can probably guide you in the right direction.

And by the way, I had forgotten that I fixed one of these new-run models for a friend a while back, so I know the DCC bypass is indeed the same as on the first run.

The major weak points I saw:

1. The cup/ball joint on the front engine truck is too short, letting them come apart, so you lose drive to the front engine truck.  That will manifest itself as having no drive to the front wheels while flipped on its back, and probably keeping the engine from moving at all on the track because the front engine truck just drags... OR it will move, but slowly and with lousy traction.  I fixed it by pulling the ball out of the cup on the motor end, inserting some Delrin disks and putting the ball back in.  That keeps the ball pushed out further from the motor, so the joint's other end doesn't fall out of the adjoining cup.

2. A mess of wires all over the top of the engine frame, both for the motor and the front headlight, and the headlight wires are pretty brittle and break off easily.  For your short problem, I'd be betting the problem is there.

[rgengineoiler]

Thank you for all thoughts on this.  At the moment I am mired in income tax, Oh whoopee!  After that I'll take your suggestions and see whats up.   Doug

[peteski]

I've been thinking about this, and if there is a possibility that the model ended up in a spot on a layout where a section of track is at an opposite polarity (like entering a turnout thrown against you), and that this caused the internal wiring to heat up and melt together, creating a short.

Many model locos use internal wiring harness made using thin wire not designed to withstand a current which can occur in DCC during a short. We have been discussing this in a recent thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=46438.0

[robert3985]

I'd like to offer some advice, but all of my Big Boys and Challengers run like Swiss watches and will easily pull the maximum 30 40' cars which is a train 9' 7.5" long to fit on my mainline sidings , so I don't have any experience having to fix one.



However, I do take mine apart to shorten the drawbars.  My experience with them is that it seems to me they'd be pretty easy to fix.

Maybe you have a local N-scale engine guru near you who could do the job instead of Athearn.  At this point, you don't have much to lose by getting it done locally.

I agree with Peter @peteski that you have had the bad luck to get a lemon.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[davefoxx]

I've been thinking about this, and if there is a possibility that the model ended up in a spot on a layout where a section of track is at an opposite polarity (like entering a turnout thrown against you), and that this caused the internal wiring to heat up and melt together, creating a short.

Many model locos use internal wiring harness made using thin wire not designed to withstand a current which can occur in DCC during a short. We have been discussing this in a recent thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=46438.0

I know you have to work on your average daily post count, but now you're just speculating.  The OP didn't mention anything about running through a closed turnout or a derailment.  In fact, he wrote that the Digitrax system shut down, and there's no indication that any other locomotives were fried.

Instead of continued spitballing, I would suggest that @rgengineoiler send the locomotive back to Athearn again.  I have had success with their warranty repair service, and, if he really wants to sell the locomotive, let's face it, he'll get much more $ for a working locomotive than a shorted out one.  If it takes several weeks or months to get it returned to him again, he's not really out anything, since he's threatening to dump the locomotive or relegate it to a shelf.  Send it back once more.

DFF

[rgengineoiler]

I sure appreciate all that are responding on my Challenger issue.  In answer there were no polarity problems with turnouts.  When I received this Challenger way back in 2017 it did the same thing then also except that first time,  smoke came out of the Loco it self, not the tender when it shut down the whole Digitrax system.  This time, no smoke was observed but the same outcome.  Athearn Challenger down for the count.  As I mentioned, all of my other equipment, Steam or Diesel run just fine. 

I do want to mention that 7 or 8 years ago (as memory goes), when Caboose Hobbies in Denver on Broadway was still running I sent a Key Imports Brass Challenger in for repair.  They were known to be very good repairing quality Steamers.  It just would not run well all the time I owned it.  They tried twice to make it reliable but never could.  I ended up selling it to a person in Chicago.  Never heard back so I suspect this person was a guru doing N Scale Steam Engine repair because I told him everything I knew concerning what was wrong with it.  All I know is that I am not repair qualified for steamers.  I am ok on Diesels.  Sending it back to Athearn again when I know my hurry is not their strong suit and 7 months is way to long to wait.  I'll think about it.   Doug