New Kato Poll

[mmagliaro]

I bet it's going to be either of the big UP engines or the rail grinder.

You guys REALLY need to start thinking like Kato Japan: what's "American Railroading" to people who just like model trains?

DD40AXs and Big Boys: two engines that not only are iconic as emblems of big time American railroading but ALSO are still in existence and running? It's almost a no brainer.

I still maintain that the first model railroad company to break $1B in revenue is going to be the one who starts making regularly available models of the interesting trains that people currently ride on (including coaches): 425, 261, 611, 756, any one of Strasburg's engines, the 2-6-6-2 at WMSR, etc...

They will sell more through the merch shops, gift stores and I bet even regular retailers than they'd EVER sell through hobby shops.

I can't think of a kid who wouldn't want to try and talk their parents into buying them a Strasburg branded train set after a visit there.  And Strasburg sees 300,000 visitors a year. I can't think of a single model railroad manufacturer who wouldn't be thrilled to sell a set to even 1% of those visitors. But yet... nada.

Are you listening @scaletrains  @rapidotrains and @AtlasModelRailroadCompany ?

Yes, if a manufacturer started making the engines that run regular excursions and are parked at museums, they'd sell product just because people would go home with a trainset after visiting the museum.  It wouldn't be a LOT of sales, though.  I don't know how many families come out of a place like Strasburg and drop a couple of hundred dollars in the gift shop, and that's what a trainset would cost (more, considering the heinous markups at gift shops).

I think you are spot on with your observations about how Kato Japan views American railroading.  Put in that context, it's a miracle they ever made the Mikado, which was a utilitarian freight engine.  It is nothing like the "glam" trains that they obviously favor.

As for what N Scale steam modelers really "need"... I can see some need for a 2-10-2, 2-10-0, other 4-8-4's, etc.  But far and away, the huge hole is still steam switchers.  For anybody modeling the steam era, they should have yards full of little 0-6-0's and 0-4-0's running around.  It is one thing common to all steam roads, in all geographic regions.  The steam railroad lived and died by pulling trains that were set up by small steam switchers.  The only option for those is still Bachmann.

[C855B]

Yeah, impossible.   
If this can be done from cobbled together Kato parts, then Kato could do it.

Yeah, but will it run on 9-3/4" radius curves? I think mass marketers like Bachmann are sticking to their guns mandating the traditional train-set product standard. 

[Jbub]

Yeah, but will it run on 9-3/4" radius curves? I think mass marketers like Bachmann are sticking to their guns mandating the traditional train-set product standard. 

Just do what bli does and make all but the front and rear driver blind. I know, a bit of exaggeration but still I think they would make the middle driver of a Pacific blind

[StarCruiser]

Maybe the next poll should be:

Do you CARE if a large steam engine can handle 9 3/4" radius curves?

[ljudice]

I'm disappointed there's no ET44AC.

I love my ST models but I break something every time I touch them.

[peteski]

Aren't Decapods impossible to do in N scale ? Didn't Bachmann cancel thiers because of it?

Says who?
Con-Cor made one and there are several European-made locos with 5 coupled drivers.

[nightmare0331]

Will someone please send Mr. Kato an Athearn Big Boy ?

Why would you assume Hiroshi doesn't already have one?

Enjoy!

Kelley.
www.dufordmodelworks.com

[robert3985]

I agree that Mr. Kato is just looking for a bit of impetus to manufacture a Big Boy.  I am not sure why @peteski  Peter thinks the Kato model won't be as detailed as the Athearn model, since I am almost perfectly happy with the detailing on Kato's FEF-3 (my main gripe is not modeling the grabs over the side cab windows which are iconic....and the funky cast-on piping near the top of the smokebox).  Shoulda bit the bullet and cast those separately.  I'm going to bet that the Kato model will run markedly better than the Athearn model and also pull twice as many cars.  Think we're gonna have to live with articulation of the rear engine, but I think Kato will find a way to connect the steam piping off the rear set of cylinders, so there's no obvious gap there as on every Big Boy ever made in N-scale except the brass ones.  I also will bet that Kato does the trailing truck better, without the obvious omission of the very prominent brake air cylinder on the truck's sideframe on both sides...and, Kato will get rid of that unsightly air-gap between the top of the trailing truck and the bottom of the firebox, just like they did on the FEF-3.  Another thing they may do, is imply a connection between the front of the rear engine and the bottom of the boiler, to get rid of THAT unsightly air gap on the Athearn model.

Of course, since the 4014 will be pulling passenger cars and will be converted to burn oil, there'll be two versions of Big Boys...one (the 4014) with a modern safety-applianced oil bunker like their FEF-3, and one with a coal bunker.  Hopefully, they'll include ash pans under the firebox for the coal version that are removable for the oil version, and removable after-coolers on the front pilot platform.

As far as R&D is concerned, the Big Boy is one of the most researched engines ever, especially considering there are still seven of them easily accessed for reference photos, measurements and even scanning.  Union Pacific management documented the Hell out of the Big Boys in their last few years, with movies, TV specials and company photos all over the place so it's extremely easy to get quality photos for research.

With the running of the flawlessly restored 4014 over U.P. trackage happening this year...THIS is going to be a huge hit for steam and railroad enthusiasts, as well as the general public...and Mr. Kato would be dense indeed not to take advantage of this event, and the following events featuring this monstrous locomotive that will be the star for Union Pacific for years to come.

Soooo....as much as I'd like to see a Baby Turbine or Veranda Turbine, or a Harriman Era S.P. whaleback-tendered/U.P. cylindrical-tendered Consolidation, or an FEF-2 without the Worthington Feedwater Heater conversion... I am almost 100% sure we're gonna see another Big Boy from Kato...in two versions.



Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[basementcalling]

Why would anyone feel Kato is bound to offer a product based on an unscientific poll like this one?

it's Mr. Kato's company. They'll make what he decides. We should consider ourselves lucky Kato still makes any US prototype engines considering how small a share of their overall business is US based. How US centric of us.

I just hope they make a non sound version, like they have with the FEF. Maybe they can do it cheaper than the Athearn offering too? Probably not, but a poor modeler can dream.

I'd be happy with a DD40 too. I wouldn't buy either of the MILW offerings - not my road or era - but I imagine they would sell well given the passion of the fans of that streak of high iron.

It certainly makes marketing sense to capitalize on the 150th anniversary of the Golden Spike ceremony. Truly a once in a generation event like the nation's Bicentennial was. Will Atlas offer a Sesquicentennial pair of 4-4-0s for UP and CP? Passenger cars? Maybe we should be asking why more model railroad related companies and magazines aren't capitalizing on this event? Surely Micro Trains will have July cars related to the celebration? I would be shocked if they don't.

Preisler figure sets including Chinese CP workers in appropriate hats, although you rarely see them in any photos of the construction? UP workers in old Civil War uniform jackets, which were quite common. Peco American prototype track? Ok, that's a laugher. Some laser cutting company needs to offer Dale Creek Bridge kits. Water towers? Offer a buffalo herd for slaughter by N scale figures.

[peteski]

I just hope they make a non sound version, like they have with the FEF. Maybe they can do it cheaper than the Athearn offering too? Probably not, but a poor modeler can dream.

Peter, none of the factory-stock locos Kato makes are sound-equipped (or even decoder equipped). They are all still strictly DCC.  So unless Kato drastically changes their business model, these will be DC locos (like all he previously made locos).

All the recent DCC equipped locos you see for sale, are custom made small runs of models (contracted by Kato USA and done locally). 

[peteski]

I agree that Mr. Kato is just looking for a bit of impetus to manufacture a Big Boy.  I am not sure why @peteski  Peter thinks the Kato model won't be as detailed as the Athearn model, since I am almost perfectly happy with the detailing on Kato's FEF-3 (my main gripe is not modeling the grabs over the side cab windows which are iconic....and the funky cast-on piping near the top of the smokebox).  Shoulda bit the bullet and cast those separately.  I'm going to bet that the Kato model will run markedly better than the Athearn model and also pull twice as many cars.  Think we're gonna have to live with articulation of the rear engine, but I think Kato will find a way to connect the steam piping off the rear set of cylinders, so there's no obvious gap there as on every Big Boy ever made in N-scale except the brass ones.  I also will bet that Kato does the trailing truck better, without the obvious omission of the very prominent brake air cylinder on the truck's sideframe on both sides...and, Kato will get rid of that unsightly air-gap between the top of the trailing truck and the bottom of the firebox, just like they did on the FEF-3.  Another thing they may do, is imply a connection between the front of the rear engine and the bottom of the boiler, to get rid of THAT unsightly air gap on the Athearn model.

Bob, while I'm a fan-boy of Kato and I even usually prefer cast-on grabs and ladders on N scale models (especially diesels), I have to concede that no matter how advanced Kato's plastic molds are, some cast-on details just don't look as good as when they are added separately.  Also, the handrails on Kato steam locos use fairly thick shiny steel wire with plastic standoffs which don't look very realistic compared to the ones on Athearn.   Another big peeve of mine is the plastic they use for the crosshead area.  The silver plastic has a totally different shade than the metal valve gear and rods.  They need to better match the metallic color of the plastic to the metal parts.  Fleischmann locos use similar design and they match the color of the plastic parts much better.

And if you want a Big Boy with a non-articulated rear engine, my Sakatsu brass model is built that way.  And the front engine's pivot is at the correct location too (at its rear).

[basementcalling]

You can't out-curmudgeon the honorary resident curmudgeon.

[peteski]

You can't out-curmudgeon the honorary resident curmudgeon.

Damn right!  I worked hard earning that title! 

[nkalanaga]

High Hood:  I would actually buy a pair of E33s.  The MILW considered buying motor-generator equipped versions to modernize the electrification in the 1960s, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

[Nato]

           When KATO released their poll for the Rock Island Rocket with the TA  diesel was when their Silver Streak Zephyr, a short  streamliner with a single locomotive had just taken off in popularity so there was hope they would do a similar train. Well that didn't happen so there went my vote for that. Do not forget that the Athearn Big Boys sometimes have issues like the current run of challengers. My 4014 which had run flawlessly for several years at the last train show I attended suddenly locked up, the motor hums, but the drivers do not turn and there appears to be no rods or linkage binding. Based on reports of awful challenger repair I would now not send it back. Their repair service under warranty use to be great I sent two early run locos back and got good service. I'am sure that Bob and others are right another Big Boy is what we will get since Mr. Kato loves them. The Loram MOW unit while not a locomotive would be interesting. If I had to go with any locomotive on the poll list it would be a tie between the Milwaukee Little Joe or the Bi Polar. KATO just recently announced that future runs of the FEF 3 will come from the factory with standard DCC ,but sound equipped locomotives will still be KOBO Custom. No Con Cor never made a 2-10-0 Decapod, their locomotive was a 2-10-2  heavy USRA not a light like Bachmann . The Bachmann Russian Decapod would have been a model of locos that were to go to Russia during World War I that did not get delivered. They were re-gauged and several roads noticeably the FRISCO obtained them. Bachmann canceled the project when they claimed, rightly so at the time, there was not a small enough motor to fit in the boiler. Now of course there are and Bachperson has used them in several of their small steamers. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.