Weekend Update 12/16/18

[robert3985]

@Mark W,

Looking good, but permit me to make some recommendations:

(1) It's always really noticeable to me that some modelers merely wrap the "wires" around the insulator or even the crossarm, rather than glue the wires on top of the insulator where it belongs.  Admittedly, the "wrapped" method is much easier and certainly more durable, but the effect betrays the realism.  What I have done is to take my triangular jeweler's file and cut a small notch in the top of the insulator to give more surface area to glue the wire on, not to mention gluing EZ Wire to a point on top of an insulator is next to impossible.  Look at the picture below and you can see the wire (contrasted against the parking lot in the background) on top of the insulator.

(2) Which leads me to my next recommendation.  Look at the poles that I used.  They're similar to yours, except that I cut off the second and third crossarms so that the line poles don't look like every other Atlas telephone pole out there.  I also did that, so there was less wires to string.    Unless you plan to string twenty-four wires through each pole, you might consider cutting back.

(3) Try to leave more slack in the EZ Wire, and you can achieve a realistic sag in the wire.  I wish I had a better picture, but I don't own the layout anymore.

(4)  You probably can move your line poles farther apart.



Hope this helps,
DFF

Maybe this will help too.  I've taken lots of photos of the utility poles, crossarms and wires accompanying the U.P. mainline up Weber and Echo Canyons here in Utah...and the way the wires are attached is certainly different than what I get from Dave's description. 

Photo (1) - U.P. Utility Pole Crossarm Details in Weber/Echo Canyons in Utah:


Photo (2) - U.P. Utility Pole Crossarm details showing which side of the insulators the wires are attached to:


In photo (2), the tracks are to the right...the wires are placed on the side of the insulators which are furthest from the rails...which may only be a matter of placing the wire to the outside of a radius when the poles are forming an arc when following the rails, which these obviously are.

Crossarms are commonly placed on alternating sides of the poles, just as Mark has done on his test diorama.

Also, the tops of the poles usually stick up further from the last crossarm than what either Dave or Mark have done...and the tops of the poles are cut at an angle to shed water as can be seen in photo (2).

When looking at the wires closely, even though many of these are just leftovers from a previous era, you can see that they're not all the same.  This is because there is an order to their placement and also to their thickness and the material they're made of.  I found a diagram that explains one way the wires were organized on trackside utility pole crossarms...

Photo (3) - Diagram of wires on typical railroad utility pole crossarms:


Because of the differences in both gauge and materials, it would be interesting to string different colors of EZ-Line in appropriate positions on your utility pole crossarms.

Interestingly, the real wires are so small that they are only obvious when viewed at certain angles and lighting.  I'm still debating as to whether I want to string all that EZ-Line on each insulator on each crossarm as is common up Weber and Echo Canyons which I am modeling.

However, the green translucent insulators that Dave has on his crossarms are very eye-catching and are similar to a project I've had on the backshelf for a few years.  Now that quality 3D printing is available to the hobbyist with an economical 3D printer, I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and purchase one to get some of my stalled projects off the ground...my U.P. style crossarms and insulators being the first project since I've got the basic 3D model finished.

Photo (4) - U.P. style utility pole crossarms...I need to slightly modify the insulators to make them a bit fatter before I make further progress:


Anyway, @Mark W , your photo has convinced me that this project I've had on the back-burner for about four years is worth pursuing.  Your backlit photo is fabulous!

...But the WOW factor really shines through when you back-light them.


https://i.imgur.com/TtpbtvI.jpg

Merry Christmas!
Bob Gilmore

[DKS]

DDF's description of mounting the wires atop the insulators is accurate for conventional roadside power lines, as opposed to telegraph and signal lines along an ROW (sorry, DDF!). As Robert has shown, telegraph lines are mounted on one side of the insulator, and attached with short wires that wrap around the groove in the insulator and tied around the telegraph wire.

Telegraph wires are (comparatively) very thin and barely visible even under ideal conditions, so take that into consideration. Also, these wires are strung under some tension and rarely (or barely) sag, as opposed to power and communications wires found along roads, which exhibit a classic, pronounced droop.

If one is inclined to model railroad telegraph wires at all, I'd recommend using very fine solenoid wire (#44 or smaller), glue it to the sides of the insulators, and paint it green oxide or roof brown. Otherwise, I'd omit them altogether.







Also... Mark W, those backlit poles are awesome!

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

 

[Dave V]

Man, I love this place.  Great info and great modeling.

Thanks, @robert3985 !  I never would have known half that info.  Like you I'm debating using EZ Line on the RGS.  I used it on the Juniata Division and it looked pretty good but it gets in the way of both photos and track maintenance.  Decision, decisions...  Given the condition of my prototype, bare poles might actually be better.

[Maletrain]

One of the projects that I have under consideration is to make a mold for cross arms and pour a bunch of them with all 10 insulators in transparent green material.  Then, I could cut off the insulators I did not want to use and paint the wood part brown/gray. leaving the insulators unpainted.  I could mount as many cross arms as I wanted on poles.

Attaching "wire" seems to be a problem mainly because we have wire simulators that are too big.  So, wrapping the wire around the side looks obviously too bulky.  I guess gluing "wire" to the sides is the best way to make it look roughly N scale.

[davefoxx]

Photo (2) - U.P. Utility Pole Crossarm details showing which side of the insulators the wires are attached to:

Wow!  I learn something everyday.  But, perhaps I should modify my post to describe what Robert's picture above is showing.  The wires are on the side of the insulators, yes, but they are clearly not resting on the crossarm, which is the look that many modelers get when they merely loop the wire around the base of the insulator.  That's really what I was trying to describe, but lacked the proper description due to my ignorance of lineside wires and poles.

DFF

[C855B]

Dave, notice the top two insulators are different. Ceramic vs. glass for one thing, and they have the slot to accommodate top mounting as well as side mounting. These wires are power distribution. Being on the top arm (and spaced higher as Bob mentioned) is was a somewhat standardized method of putting high voltage wires out of the way of the signal lines to reduce the possibility of accidental contact during maintenance.

[davefoxx]

Fascinating!  I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll never look at a line pole the same way again.  Thanks, all!

DFF

[Cajonpassfan]

You guys are a tough crowd!
Personally, I think that stringing telephone and signal lines on an N scale layout is just not worth the effort. It's way too much work, it's impractical on an operating model railroad due to access and track cleaning limitations, and frankly, it rarely looks believable because the wires are way too fat and there aren't enough of them. Yes, I can see doing a "scene" for that special photo, but not a layout of any size. So rather than worrying about what side of the insulator the wire goes on, I'm much more interested in the placement and colors and variety of types of poles and structures. The beautiful Frank Peterson photo of Summit (CA) illustrates my point...I don't see any wires and I won't miss them on my layout.
Others may see it differently, and more power to them...
Otto K. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[Dave V]

Well, to each his own.  For those that decide it's worth the visual reward to string wires, it's great to know how to do them correctly.

EDIT:  Hey, @robert3985 , any chance you'd want to do a tutorial thread on proper line pole modeling?  I can cut this out of the Weekend Update into another thread so it doesn't get lost, but I think it merits a how-to thread.  I'm guessing you have even more info and modeling examples you could share.

[Santa Fe Guy]

I'm with Otto on this one. On my now fallen flag SFRSD I used the standard Atlas line-side poles however cut off some of the cross bars the further away from a town they became. Painted some of them grey others brown, cut off the bases and any of the ugly over sized yellow boxes that some had and painted the insulators flat white. I spaced them out about 120 scale feet if I recall, (hell how far apart they are I cannot tell living in Australia) so a friend drove me to Coal City to do some rail-fanning one day whilst on business in Chicago. I got out and stepped out the distance so I was close to prototype.
This is just one location on my RR.
They sure make a difference when added.
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
By the way that is a visiting Victorian Railways N Scale loco and cars running on the RR during one of my yearly open house for friends locos, trains etc.
Rod.

[Mark W]

Man, I love this place.  Great info and great modeling.

Yes, ditto.  It's great when folks are not afraid willing to share constructive comments on improving a model, and perhaps more importantly, when those receiving the comments are happy to get them! 

[Steveruger45]

Yes, ditto.  It's great when folks are not afraid willing to share constructive comments on improving a model, and perhaps more importantly, when those receiving the comments are happy to get them!

Yep, the whole reason I am a member of TRW.  Constructive criticism with a “show and tell” is a learning experience. Thanks everyone I learned a lot here and very timely too as this is now near the top of my to-do list.

[Cajonpassfan]

Actually, I agree 100%. I learn a lot here, including on this thread (I had no clue why pole tops are cut at an angle, I thought it was sloppiness; now I know). It seems no matter what topic is brought up, no matter how obscure, there are people here that know their stuff and are willing to share it. TRW rocks!
Otto K.

[mu26aeh]

Better modeling thru peer pressure. 

I know there is a lot of things I have done that I never would have attempted before signing on here.

[Curtis Kyger]

FYI;  Poles are 10 to the quarter mile.  Helps when telling the dispatcher exactly where you are.   
1 mile = 5,280 ft.  1/4 mile = 1,320 ft.  Each pole should be spaced 132' apart.