The FA-1 / FB-1 Locomotive is Back

[peteski]

Looking at Spooks page for the DD40.. the very first one had the potential for the open walkway.. but each revision makes the problem worse.. ) although the latest version seems like you could mill out the walkway..

http://www.spookshow.net/loco/bachdd40ax.html

I'll bet the next run will have sound and they will put the speaker in the center

It did indeed. That is because only the front truck was powered (the motor was mounted on top of the truck). Rest of the frame was very low. That is why it is even more puzzling why the next version did not include the open walkway.  Well, I suspect that the Chinese designers are not very familiar with the ins and outs of the real locomotive, and nobody at the American office noticed (or cared) about that detail and the model was approved for production. Just a speculation.

[Point353]

I was hoping that when a new Alco FA/FB model came out, it would have both updated innards and body detailing, although I have had zero problems with my old LL models with their antiquated chassis.  Maybe in the near future other manufacturers will get the message that the Alco FA/FB engines are viable models and deserve to be brought into the 21st century as far as mechanicals and detailing are concerned.

Considering that the Life-Like models already had a "Grade A" rating [ http://www.spookshow.net/loco/llalcof.html ], what updates do you think the "innards" require and what dollar value do you place on having the "mechanicals brought into the 21^st century"?

[bbussey]

I absolutely love the LL FAs. The only “detriments” were the wheel flanges, the coupling distance, and the lack of ease to digitize them. I corrected the first issue by swapping in Walthers RS-2 wheelsets when they were available, as the models shared the same truck components otherwise. I initially added draw bars to reduce the coupling distance, but now use the MTL true-scale couplers which tightens things up nicely and allows for easier separation of the units. I was going to mill frames to add decoders and add sound to one or two of them, but now I will simply wait for the Atlas chassis and swap in the shells from my LL units. But I’ve run them for years in analog mode, where they operate at scale speed and pull a ton.

[C855B]

Ok, we are splitting hairs here - motor, flywheel - it is a major (and large) part of the drive-train. If you cut that flywheel off, you should do the same to the other side. ...

Not necessary. Each motor has two flywheels, and the one that gets hacked is the smaller of the pair. I have to wonder why they went through the trouble of two flywheels.

Daylighted, as promised:



The milling was very easy, biggest problem I had was dealing with motor wires breaking off during reassembly. Replaced the decoder while it was in surgery. Runs fine.

Bob, my OMI 'X is absolutely a shelf queen. Or, rather, a "dusty box queen". Pulled it apart in attempts to solve its ills, saw what a cluster the mechanism was on one end, and didn't even bother to put it back together. It is my understanding that I may have a first-generation version and the second edition was improved.

[peteski]

Not necessary. Each motor has two flywheels, and the one that gets hacked is the smaller of the pair. I have to wonder why they went through the trouble of two flywheels.

Daylighted, as promised:

[img  width=300]http://www.everywherewest.com/6900_daylight.jpg[/img]

The milling was very easy, biggest problem I had was dealing with motor wires breaking off during reassembly. Replaced the decoder while it was in surgery. Runs fine.

Thanks Mike!  Looks like I pushed you to complete one of your stalled projects. 
If I ever make those  replacement sideframes, I'll let you know.

[C855B]

Thanks for the encouragement, but I only have something like a dozen more to go - went crazy when a few folks were clearing non-sound stock for $50/ea., with some destined to become chassis donors for DD35s.

The walkway opening is one of the easier bits of a larger program to improve details. It's not that the opening mod was procrastinated, it's having other pieces in place to do as many mods in a single overhaul process rather than repeatedly taking them apart and breaking stuff. It'll have to wait (even more) since the immediate push has to be getting a complete loop running on the layout.

[robert3985]

Were those the first run OMI from the late 80s or the version from 2005?

@GhengisKong , 1st run...late 80's.  They came with the OMI drivetrain upgrade in a little plastic bag and a set of instructions if I remember correctly.  The later run was noticeably better detailed and painted too.  Mine were unpainted brass...and it seems I got both of 'em for around $150...which was a screamin' deal (I thought). 

Sold 'em on eBay 30 years later for a lot more for sure!

Merry Christmas!
Bob Gilmore

[robert3985]

Considering that the Life-Like models already had a "Grade A" rating [ http://www.spookshow.net/loco/llalcof.html ], what updates do you think the "innards" require and what dollar value do you place on having the "mechanicals brought into the 21^st century"?

@Point353 , Frankly, I don't worry about putting a dollar value on a well-done N-scale model.  The market sorta does that for me. 

Actually, I'm pretty happy with the seven sets of ABB FA-1/FB-1's I've got.  They run excellently and I haven't had any problems with any flexible wires coming loose.  I also think the nose contours are spot-on and the cast-on detailing is sharp and at least equal to Kato's F's.

However, in the 21st century, it's becoming pretty obvious that DCC is becoming the prevalent way to operate motive power...and dual mode decoders allow both DC and DCC for those who haven't taken the leap yet.  Becoming even more obvious is the fact that sound in N-scale is steadily improving...especially diesel sound...and is also much more available.

Having installed sound in quite a few N-scale diesels, modifying the metal frames is the biggest problem for do-it-yourselfers on older N-scale motive power, and I'm very happy that I have a mill and industrial drill press to make that job much easier than if I only had a hand-drill and rotary tool to grind away the metal necessary to make room for the added electronics and air-tight speaker enclosure.  The last time I opened up a LL FA-1 was about ten years ago, and I don't remember the particulars, other than thinking that it looked exceptionally crude.  Since all of mine are stashed away in moving boxes (I am still not completely moved into the new house) I can't find one to take a look now, but I can generalize what I think ANY manufacturer should do to produce a modern "21st century" model.

Although the old LL FA's run well, their chassis are NOT conducive to milling or making space for a decoder or speaker.  Re-designing them for DCC and sound would be a major step to modernize their chassis.  Mechanically, they operate well, but Kato has it figured out how to make a diesel run flawlessly and reliably without any flexible wires offering the possibility of eventually oxidizing and breaking or the solder joints failing. (EDIT: @spookshow has kindly taken me to task about this statement, and he is correct.  I was relying on old memory, and evidently I was thinking of some other locomotive that has wires to the trucks.)   I haven't had that happen yet, but I haven't run my LL FA's on the layout in almost ten years since I DCC-ized it. (EDIT: Although this is true, since the LL FA/FB's don't have wires running to their trucks, this statement is meaningless.)

(EDIT: Since I still can't find the box they're in, I will defer to Spookshow and his expertise as well as his link to his review of the LL FA/FB.  As I also have said, the only "gripe" I have about the old LL model is the non-U.P. numberboards, which are so distinctive and obvious. Spookshow also has his opinion about my opinion in his review (haha!  ) ...and that's 100% OK!  Hey, I'm an N-scale U.P. Freakazoid and it's getting worse with age!    )

Just because Spookshow rates them highly (EDIT:...and I highly respect Spookshows reviews, efforts and opinions!) doesn't mean that they can't be improved on in the next run, but I agree that they run great...even with their antiquated innards, and the body lends itself pretty well to adding separate details.

Also, as far as detailing is concerned, separate wire grabs (scale plastic ones are either too fragile or too flexible), etched windshield wipers and see-thru gratings on the sides would go a long way...as well as finer fan detailing up top and etched lift rings....and, of course, an option for the small or large numberboards on the nose. Along with detailing, I suppose you could consider smaller flanges to be an update, and road-specific detailing would be even better.

I'd certainly be willing to pay more bucks for exceptionally detailed, reliable DCC sound-equipped FA/FB's with road-specific U.P. detailing. I think quite a few modelers who do different roads would feel the same...and I'd sell my old LL models on eBay since I didn't pay that much for them to begin with.  No large loss, and it would save me a shirt-load of time and effort.

Hope that clarifies my position.    

Merry Christmas!
Bob Gilmore

 

[spookshow]

@GhengisKongThey came with the OMI drivetrain upgrade in a little plastic bag and a set of instructions if I remember correctly.

Bob, I'm curious about the drivetrain upgrade - can you elaborate on that a little more? This is the first time I've ever heard about it.

Thanks,
-Mark

[robert3985]

Not necessary. Each motor has two flywheels, and the one that gets hacked is the smaller of the pair. I have to wonder why they went through the trouble of two flywheels.

Daylighted, as promised:



The milling was very easy, biggest problem I had was dealing with motor wires breaking off during reassembly. Replaced the decoder while it was in surgery. Runs fine.

Bob, my OMI 'X is absolutely a shelf queen. Or, rather, a "dusty box queen". Pulled it apart in attempts to solve its ills, saw what a cluster the mechanism was on one end, and didn't even bother to put it back together. It is my understanding that I may have a first-generation version and the second edition was improved.

@C855B , Nice job on daylighting the gap in the middle of the model!   Makes a big difference in the way it looks, but the trucks still look "flat", the body sits way too high...the truck-mounted pilots really ruin the model...yeah, I know they're probably necessary on any layout that doesn't have at least a 24" minimum mainline radius, but they still look sucky.

I gotta say however that the handrails along the sides look better than the OMI (first run) Centennial's did.  The grating detailing on the sides is also better as the brass OMI model's are very shallow.

What really made my OMI Centennials look much more U.P.-ish was the addition of cab side window shades, arm rests and mirrors/deflectors, along with a proper beacon and a firecracker antenna up top.  The green on the hood is way too dark on the Bachmann model...fading it or just making it lighter will make a big difference.  Picking out the sand hatches on the hood with Harbor Mist Gray will also make things look much more prototypical, along with adding white-painted grabs on the hood too. 

Finally, etched windshield wipers on the big windshields are really necessary....two per side (not one per side like I erroneously added to my models).

Anyways...nice job on making the hole in the middle!

Merry Christmas!
Bob Gilmore

[brokemoto]

what have they contributed to N scale in the last 20 years that's useful?

The first N scale North American ten wheeler.
A mogul.
The GE industrial switchers.
The EM-1
The first decently running North American streetcar.
Upgraded freight cars.
Sectional track with broad curves.
An upgraded USRA 0-6-0 (now if only it would go to an all wheels live tender--but that upgrade is not difficult for the modeller to do).
An S-4.
An upgraded nineteenth century eight wheeler.
Both USRA 4-8-2s.
The SPECTRUM 2-8-0, still  one of the yardsticks by which N scale steam is measured (the other is the Kato USRA heavy 2-8-2).

[brokemoto]

Northeastern caboose

I forgot that one, although I did mention the upgraded freight cars.  The Bachpersonn NE caboose is far nicer than the LL.  It does not look like it is on stilts, as does the LL.

[basementcalling]

The first N scale North American ten wheeler.
A mogul.
The GE industrial switchers.
The EM-1
The first decently running North American streetcar.
Upgraded freight cars.
Sectional track with broad curves.
An upgraded USRA 0-6-0 (now if only it would go to an all wheels live tender--but that upgrade is not difficult for the modeller to do).
An S-4.
An upgraded nineteenth century eight wheeler.
Both USRA 4-8-2s.
The SPECTRUM 2-8-0, still  one of the yardsticks by which N scale steam is measured (the other is the Kato USRA heavy 2-8-2).

OK, I'l give you the ten wheeler, the 2-8-0, the 4-8-2s, and the EM1. My experience with the GE industrial switchers was horrid, but besides the steam, what have the Bachmann Boys done for us lately. 

[Point353]

@
Actually, I'm pretty happy with the seven sets of ABB FA-1/FB-1's I've got.  They run excellently and I haven't had any problems with any flexible wires coming loose.  I also think the nose contours are spot-on and the cast-on detailing is sharp and at least equal to Kato's F's.

Mechanically, they operate well, but Kato has it figured out how to make a diesel run flawlessly and reliably without any flexible wires offering the possibility of eventually oxidizing and breaking or the solder joints failing.  I haven't had that happen yet, but I haven't run my LL FA's on the layout in almost ten years since I DCC-ized it.

What "wires" are you referring to in regard to the FA-1/FB-1 chassis?
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/llalcof.html

[brokemoto]

besides the steam, what have the Bachmann Boys done for us lately.

BESIDES?  The steam is the major thing that B-mann has done for us.