Worn Atlas loco wheels? Fixable?

[Doug G.]

Some or many wheels are nickel-plated brass and the wheel eventually wears down to the brass.

Doug

[narrowminded]

I have made the various wheel sizes for my miniature chassis from nickel silver with integral machined half axles.  The idea was best pickup, both track and phosphor bronze wipers, as well as the silvery appearance.  The brass will go from a yellow to ruddy brown look pretty quick, that's oxide, and I can't imagine it helps conductivity.  

The chassis is brass, at least this far, but was considering nickel silver for that too for the reason of conductivity AND looks.  It does cost measurably more but cuts the same as far as I can tell only having run five or six hundred various size wheels in total, all on the same carbide cutter edge.  I imagine they will go thousands without a cutter change.  After thousands of running hours on my test chassis' I can't imagine any reason to change from nickel silver for the wheels.

[tehachapifan]

While it does make sense, I'm still not entirely sold on the concept that wheels start out with a silver finish and then wear down to the brass underneath. Albeit I do but a lot of stuff second-hand, I can't say that I've ever had a loco where I know for certain the wheels started out as silver and then ended up brass. It always seemed to me they started out looking either silver or brass and stayed that way. I've also never noticed wheels that appear to be in a transition from silver to brass with some kind of wear pattern. For example, look at the wheels at the start of this thread. They are 100% brass in appearance with no trace of silver, even on the flanges.

[davefoxx]

I want you to take a look at the Atlas wheels installed on your SD50 now and compare them to this "after" picture of the Kato wheelsets on an IM SD45-2 that I used to own.  The trucks on the IM SDs are the same as the Atlas trucks on your SD50.  Big improvement in looks alone! Doooooooo it.



DFF

[Doug G.]

While it does make sense, I'm still not entirely sold on the concept that wheels start out with a silver finish and then wear down to the brass underneath. Albeit I do but a lot of stuff second-hand, I can't say that I've ever had a loco where I know for certain the wheels started out as silver and then ended up brass. It always seemed to me they started out looking either silver or brass and stayed that way. I've also never noticed wheels that appear to be in a transition from silver to brass with some kind of wear pattern. For example, look at the wheels at the start of this thread. They are 100% brass in appearance with no trace of silver, even on the flanges.

I have seen the nickel plating worn off many times on my own locomotives. These are old ones, however, and I believe most later wheels are Nickel Silver all the way through or, the plating is thicker, although the picture of the subject wheels of this thread does not bear that out in that it is a relatively much later locomotive. And the plating being worn off completely on the treads and flanges is feasible if the loco has been run an extraordinary amount of time.

Doug

[peteski]

Thanks for the hint Jon.  I'll label them L or R with a Sharpie as I take them off.

Peteski, I read the entire other thread.  I don't have an arbor press but I'm assuming a bench top drill press would work as I can't imagine you need that much force to move those axles.  The only concern I have is how the hell do I know to move the drill press down 0.01"?  Yes, I can measure it with a caliper but that's the final result.  I'm imagining a night more or chasing "Damn, too much!  Oops, too little! Etc." scenario.

Instead of taking each set apart, adjust the axles, reassemble them, measure and repeat (I'm sure I won't get the correct length the first time), I was thinking doing it with everything together and go REALLY slow with the drill press on each side of the axle.

I have documented my method in this update to the other thread.  It is not conducive to  leaving the wheelsets unassembled, but it assures accuracy and very easy repeatability.  So you can do all 12 wheels in just couple of minutes. If you chose another method, make sure to protect the axle point from being flattened by some hard steel ram while pushing on it.

Here is my stash of worn down Atlas wheels (and I didn't even keep them all).


AtlasWornWheels.jpg

Those wheels are made out of brass then probably nickel-plated, then blackened.  The plating does not last very long, exposing the brass. Kato either uses solid nickel-silver, or uses much thicker plated layer, because I have never seen any brass colored threads on any well-worn Kato wheels. Their treads stay looking silver (not brassy).

[peteski]

While it does make sense, I'm still not entirely sold on the concept that wheels start out with a silver finish and then wear down to the brass underneath. Albeit I do but a lot of stuff second-hand, I can't say that I've ever had a loco where I know for certain the wheels started out as silver and then ended up brass. It always seemed to me they started out looking either silver or brass and stayed that way. I've also never noticed wheels that appear to be in a transition from silver to brass with some kind of wear pattern. For example, look at the wheels at the start of this thread. They are 100% brass in appearance with no trace of silver, even on the flanges.

If you are willing to sacrifice few wheelsets you can easily find out what material they are made of.  Just file a flat spot in the tread (or even cut the wheel in half).   Do this with old and new Atlas wheels and with Kato wheels..

[Doug G.]

Solid nickel silver would be considerably more expensive to manufacture than nickel silver plated brass.

Doug

[peteski]

Solid nickel silver would be considerably more expensive to manufacture than nickel silver plated brass.

Doug

Do you mean that machining is more expensive (I thought they both machined easily), or strictly the cost of the metal stock?

[MK]

Thanks Peteski.  I replied in the other thread.

To answer Russ' comment.  Here is a picture for my first DCC loco, Atlas Conrail GP40-2, purchased 13+ years ago.  Since it was my only DCC one back then, my son and I inititially ran it quite a lot.  As the years gone by and I added and converted more locos, its run time dropped because it was no longer the only DCC loco that I have.

As you can see, the upper right is showing brass while the other 3 are still in their various stages of silver.  I'm going to guess that those 3 will eventually be like the forth.



BTW, Peteski et al, same Kato wheels will fit this one too?

[Doug G.]

Do you mean that machining is more expensive (I thought they both machined easily), or strictly the cost of the metal stock?

Material cost. Although the difference seems minimal, over many wheels and locomotives and slim margins to begin with, cost is cost.

Doug

[Steveruger45]

BTW, Peteski et al, same Kato wheels will fit this one too?

That’s a good question and one I have yet to find the answer for.  Looking at the The Atlas loco diagrams the Atlas part numbers for the sd50/60 wheels are different than those for many 4 axle trucks by one digit which suggests they are not perhaps the same.  If they are different then I would suspect it is the gear on the axle or the plastic axle diameter or such like.  Should be easy to measure and count gear teeth to find out, but I’m also pretty sure this trail has been blazed by many others that would know.

[peteski]

Thanks Peteski.  I replied in the other thread.

To answer Russ' comment.  Here is a picture for my first DCC loco, Atlas Conrail GP40-2, purchased 13+ years ago.  Since it was my only DCC one back then, my son and I inititially ran it quite a lot.  As the years gone by and I added and converted more locos, its run time dropped because it was no longer the only DCC loco that I have.

As you can see, the upper right is showing brass while the other 3 are still in their various stages of silver.  I'm going to guess that those 3 will eventually be like the forth.



BTW, Peteski et al, same Kato wheels will fit this one too?

If the wheelset has the same offset gear and pointy axles, then it should fit.  Visually, to me, they look the same to the other Atlas wheelsets. How about if you look up the part number for the wheelsets of all the locos in question (in the Atlas online parts diagrams)?  If the part number is the same, they will most certainly fit.

[MK]

If the wheelset has the same offset gear and pointy axles, then it should fit.  Visually, to me, they look the same to the other Atlas wheelsets. How about if you look up the part number for the wheelsets of all the locos in question (in the Atlas online parts diagrams)?  If the part number is the same, they will most certainly fit.

Close but no cigar!    490304 for SD50/60 and 480304 for GP40-2 but the gear does look offset in the Geep also.

[peteski]

Close but no cigar!    490304 for SD50/60 and 480304 for GP40-2 but the gear does look offset in the Geep also.

I still suspect that those are the same wheesets.  The part number is just too similar.    Maybe one was made by Kato and the other in China? The all seem to be based on original Kato design (which started with the U30C). If you had both handy, you could easily check.  Just verify the dimensions of both.