Lifelike SW9 Loksound installation (N scale)

[Steveruger45]

Axle spacing difference was something that crossed my mind but I don’t have an SW to measure / compare.

[Jim Starbuck]

Russ,

I have installed Atlas wheels and half axles into the LifeLike geared axle tubes.
It works fine but the axle point is a bit longer than the stock wheelsets so it takes a bit of fiddling to get the gauge right and still have the axles turn freely in the pickup cups.
My experience is if you crowd the gauge a bit on the narrow side it works.
The Atlas axles are slightly larger diameter and fit the stock tubes without having to add any adhesive.

Jim

[tehachapifan]

Axle spacing difference was something that crossed my mind but I don’t have an SW to measure / compare.

Thanks! When I initially replied, I had forgotten about Atlas' VO-1000 even though I have one stashed away. The axle spacing/truck's own wheelbase look about right but the sideframes in the parts section are friction bearing plus a few other discrepancies. It looks like the same might be the case for their other switcher locos that might have the shorter trucks. So, I would kind of be trading one problem for another, assuming the truck assemblies could even be swapped in the first place.

Russ,

I have installed Atlas wheels and half axles into the LifeLike geared axle tubes.
It works fine but the axle point is a bit longer than the stock wheelsets so it takes a bit of fiddling to get the gauge right and still have the axles turn freely in the pickup cups.
My experience is if you crowd the gauge a bit on the narrow side it works.
The Atlas axles are slightly larger diameter and fit the stock tubes without having to add any adhesive.

Jim

OK, good to know. Thanks!

[Jim Starbuck]

Russ,

Your report on the reduced pulling power on the Kato wheelsets piqued my interest. I hadn’t checked to see what it would pull by itself after the wheel swap because I have been running it paired to a powered calf.
The pulling capacity is definitely reduced by the Kato wheels.
Before it would pull 12 weighted boxcars and a bay window caboose on my Unitrack loop and now it pulls 8 cars and no caboose.

Jim

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, Jim! Yeah, that indeed seems to be a factor to consider with the wheel swap. I think I would still choose consistent electrical pickup without frequent cleaning over pulling power, however those LL wheels are apparently real grippers. My typical arrangement is to run two switchers together on the branch anyway, so all works out I suppose.

[peteski]

Update: I swapped-out the stock wheels for Kato ones. First thing I noticed was how much lower the unit sits (those LL wheels are huge!). I did also notice how loosely the Kato axles (sometimes) fit in the sleeve as mentioned above. I say sometimes because a few of them seemed to fit pretty snug. I didn't have much luck using ACC to tighten them up, presumably because the axle sleeves appear to be Delrin and the axles being a glossy metal, but perhaps there was some residual oil interfering as well. I also noticed a fairly significant reduction in traction with these wheels. They appear to be way more slippery and the loco pulls 3 cars now instead of 5+ (this is largely attributed to my branchline having some pretty steep grade sections and sharp curves). While some increased slip is probably to be expected with the high-gloss Kato wheels, I thought perhaps the wheels were spinning in the axle sleeves under load but I can see the wheels spinning on the track. I guess those brassy LL wheels really gripped! Maybe the Kato wheels will gain a little more grip over time after some use.

Also, as an experiment, I plopped an Atlas wheelset (geared axle and all) in another LL truck and it seems like it might actually work too. Rolling the truck back and forth by hand, the gears seem to mesh and there doesn't appear to be any resistance or snags. However, the gear is more offset on the Atlas axle than on the LL axle, causing gears to not completely line up like before. I also tried this with the whole Kato wheelset but the axle gear is narrower than the Atlas one and this offset appears like it may be too great. This offset gear on the Atlas axle also sits really close to (if it's not actually touching) one side of the gear openings in the bottom of the sideframe casting. I suppose a little bit of the opening edge could possibly be widened if it is indeed touching and causes problems. What I haven't tried yet is if a Kato wheel will fit in the Atlas axle sleeve and if it would be any tighter (keeping the Atlas wheels is an option too, but the original goal was to go with Kato wheels). I also haven't tried the Atlas axle under power yet. Jim, did you play around with this option as well?

It is absolutely vital that the axle tube and the half axle are perfectly clean and free of *ANY* grease for the adhesives to work.  Also Loctite threadlocker will liklely give better adhesion to the Delrin plastic.

Another possibility is to try to flatten the inside end of the Kato half-axle. I have not thought of doing this until just now. That will create a positive lock with the inside of the Life Like axle tube. Still use adhesive too (and make sure to degrease all the parts).

As for the adhesion of Kato wheels, yes, they will be more slippery than the plated brass Life Like wheels, but once the shiny dark platign wears off (exposing the sliverish metal), adhesion will improve a bit.

Even if the Atlas truck fit LL mechanism, I do not recommend it.  The LL trucks have double gear reduction inside: the worm gear is double (like in all other manufacturer's trucks), another one of the inner gears is also double. That results in increased gear reduction ratio, giving the loco excellent slow speed.   I wish other manufacturers used this in their trucks.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, Peteski! All good tips, though I would be a little concerned that flattening the end of the half axles may potentially open the door to a wobble... as I would guess it's going to gouge the hole a little on the way in, potentially resulting in even a slight oval-like elongation of the hole opening, no? That said, it's a very interesting idea.

[peteski]

Thanks, Peteski! All good tips, though I would be a little concerned that flattening the end of the half axles may potentially open the door to a wobble... as I would guess it's going to gouge the hole a little on the way in, potentially resulting in even a slight oval-like elongation of the hole opening, no? That said, it's a very interesting idea.

I say "don't worry about the wobble".  The axle tube is already gouged all around from the original axle's knurling. Be adventurous.

Besides, the flattened part will be in the center of the plastic tube, and with snug-fit on the unmodified portion I really don't see that there is much possibility for a wobble.  And I envision that it would be gentle flattening (just to stop the axle from easily slipping in the axle tube).  Well within the range of the tube's flexing range.

[tehachapifan]

Ok, thanks! I may give this a go next time I need to take things apart again. For now, it's running good.

[Steveruger45]

I have had good results to get a slightly more resistance fit of a shaft in a tube by squeezing the shaft with the fine serrated part in a pair of good quality pliers, rotating the shaft and squeezing again a few times, just to slightly rough-up the shaft OD.

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, Steve! Good tip as well.

[peteski]

Thanks, Steve! Good tip as well.

When I read Steve's tip I thought "thehachapi fan is *SO* worried about even a hint of a wobble, that he will never even remotely consider even slightly squeezing (um, distorting, deforming!) the axle tubes!" 

[tehachapifan]

You're close to right! My experience with the wobbles is, once you've introduced them, they're extremely hard to get rid of short of starting over with new parts.

In fact, one wheel actually wobbles ever so slightly after doing the Kato wheel swap in the LL sleeve. I suspect this is a result of pulling one of the LL wheels out of a LL sleeve that was really stubborn coming out. Is slight enough that it really isn't noticeable.

[diezmon]

Russ,

I have installed Atlas wheels and half axles into the LifeLike geared axle tubes.
It works fine but the axle point is a bit longer than the stock wheelsets so it takes a bit of fiddling to get the gauge right and still have the axles turn freely in the pickup cups.
My experience is if you crowd the gauge a bit on the narrow side it works.
The Atlas axles are slightly larger diameter and fit the stock tubes without having to add any adhesive.

Jim

I'm just catching up on this.  This whole replacement of LL wheels with Kato/Atlas is a popular one.     

I recently replaced some LL SW wheels with kato, and had to adjust the point lengths for this to work, after the suggestion by @peteski. (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33107.msg379288#msg379288)   

The Atlas wheels you speak of, you didn't have to mess with the axle point length? Are these basically the same as kato wheelsets? 

[peteski]

I'm just catching up on this.  This whole replacement of LL wheels with Kato/Atlas is a popular one.     

I recently replaced some LL SW wheels with kato, and had to adjust the point lengths for this to work, after the suggestion by @peteski. (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33107.msg379288#msg379288)   

The Atlas wheels you speak of, you didn't have to mess with the axle point length? Are these basically the same as kato wheelsets?

The whole idea of using the Kato's new low-profile flange replacement wheelsets is to eliminate the sub-par Atlas wheels.  Atlas wheels are made from plated brass. Plating wears off and the brass tread does not conduct electricity well (and gets gunked up fast).   Personally I don't think that replacing Life Like wheelsets with Atlas is a move in good direction.