Lifelike SW9 Loksound installation (N scale)

[tehachapifan]

Russ
The speaker & not the sound decoder could be making it not sound right for you.

Thanks! Yeah, I'm pretty particular about speakers and enclosures and I typically roll my own enclosures. Due to the available size in the cab, I was limited to an 8x12 speaker and an enclosure that's admittedly a bit smaller/shorter than my previous switcher installs that also use 8x12 speakers. I realize this will take away from the overall sound quality and fullness some, however it is sounding really good now with the 75862 file and the Leslie S3L#1 horn which, while not at all similar to a P3, is one of my go-to's for a nice, loud horn.

...all this said, I may try the 8cyl file now. The 75862 file, while nice, has just a bit too much of a bathtub/washing machine sound overriding everything...at least at idle and with my particular install. Plus, there's a bit too much of what I believe is long hood door rattle in the start up sequence and some notch increases. A little door rattle is OK, the 6cyl 567 file has a little and it sounds great, but is seems too prominent in this file. Jim, judging from the sound sample and you video, I can see why you went with the 8cyl with its pronounced knocking and 567 whine. I think that may translate better thru an 8x12 speaker. Just wish uploads didn't take so long....and then there's all the CV adjustments again.

[Jim Starbuck]

Russ,

The non sound CV adjustments are easy if you have your engine saved as a project.
Download the new sound file then open it from the download folder in file management and it will open Lokprogrammer and the sound file as a new project.
Write only the sound file from that project. When the sound file is finished close the new unnamed project and open the original project from within Lokprogrammer and click the write CV button and all of the motor and light settings will be written without affecting the new sound file.
I just did this tonight on my SW7 and it worked fine.

Jim

[tehachapifan]

Russ,

The non sound CV adjustments are easy if you have your engine saved as a project.
Download the new sound file then open it from the download folder in file management and it will open Lokprogrammer and the sound file as a new project.
Write the sound file from that project. When the sound file is finished close the new unnamed project and open the original project from within Lokprogrammer and click the write CV button and all of the motor and light settings will be written without affecting the new sound file.
I just did this tonight on my SW7 and it worked fine.

Jim

Good tip! Never tried that.

I did upload the 8cyl file and, yes, that one sounds way better! Very pleased now.

[tehachapifan]

OK, finally took a video of my install.....

[Steveruger45]

Hi Russ,
Really nice.  I’m jealous

[tehachapifan]

Thanks, Steve! Yeah, REALLY happy with it. It's also definitely my smoothest running loco in my fleet now. With the sound off, it's almost completely silent.

[tehachapifan]

Jim, questions on the wheels. You mentioned swapping-out the stack wheels for Kato ones. I'm assuming you meant the wheels themselves and not the whole wheelset, right (as the gear offset is different)? If just the wheels, did you have any issues with the wheels not going in the plastic sleeves straight or any resulting wobbles? Did you just do this by hand or did you use some type of alignment tool? Were these wheels from Kato's 932090 set?

Thanks!

[peteski]

Jim, questions on the wheels. You mentioned swapping-out the stack wheels for Kato ones. I'm assuming you meant the wheels themselves and not the whole wheelset, right (as the gear offset is different)? If just the wheels, did you have any issues with the wheels not going in the plastic sleeves straight or any resulting wobbles? Did you just do this by hand or did you use some type of alignment tool? Were these wheels from Kato's 932090 set?

Thanks!

 I suspect that he simply used the LL axle-tube/gear with the Kato wheel/half-axles, because Kato and LL axle diameter is the same. I forgot about this combo until now.  I have tried that few years ago and it worked, but the Kato axles are tiny fraction of an inch smaller in diameter, so their fit into the LL axle tube is not very tight. But if some CA glue or Loctite is used, that should work.

[tehachapifan]

I suspect so as well, however my question about alignment and any wobbles still stands.

[peteski]

I suspect so as well, however my question about alignment and any wobbles still stands.

Since the half-axles are not removed from the wheels, and the plastic axle tube is just a tiny bit larger than the Kato axles (there is no play in their fit, but they aren't super tight), I don't see any wobble being introduced.  But I'm also curious to see what Jim will say.

[Jim Starbuck]

Jim, questions on the wheels. You mentioned swapping-out the stack wheels for Kato ones. I'm assuming you meant the wheels themselves and not the whole wheelset, right (as the gear offset is different)? If just the wheels, did you have any issues with the wheels not going in the plastic sleeves straight or any resulting wobbles? Did you just do this by hand or did you use some type of alignment tool? Were these wheels from Kato's 932090 set?

Thanks!

Russ,

Yes, I used just the wheels with half axles from the Kato 932090 set and used the stock LifeLike axle tubes with their gears.
The Kato half axles are just slightly smaller diameter than the stock L/L resulting in a slip fit in the axle tube as opposed to a desired press fit. There isn’t enough difference however to cause any wobbles. The Kato wheels almost work as-is but I used just a slight bit of ACC to secure them in the tubes.
One thing to note when removing the stock wheelsets from the axle tubes is to pull them straight out and not do any twisting. The stock axles are fluted to grip the inside of the axle tube and will gall out the plastic tube if twisted on removal. The Kato axles are smooth.
I pushed the Kato axle into the tube most of the way then applied a tiny amount of glue with the tip of a pin to the axle and push it the rest of the way in. If you apply the glue to the end of the axle first it sets before you get it the wheel pushed in where you want it.
Seems to me that I did the short end of the axle tube first and just put the edge of my hobby knife between the back of the wheel and the end of the axle tube to leave a little space; maybe .0005” or so then when I did the long side I just pushed the axle in until it gauged properly. It ends up with about the same space between the back of the wheel and the axle tube on the long end too.
The important thing to watch for is not to let the able tube go all the way against the back of the wheel as this allows the axle gear to run against the adjacent gear in the truck which I’ve found to be one of the two main sources of noise in these mechs. Here’s a photo showing where you want a little clearance.

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I assume you know the technique to remove the trucks without having to disturb the shell or chassis?
Pull the fuel tank off and carefully twist the trucks 90 degrees and they will lift right out. It takes a small amount of finagling when you twist them back in to make sure the pick up tabs are between the truck tabs and the sill because both sides try to engage at the same time. Sometimes I just hold one tab against the sill with the point of my hobby knife and gently twist the truck back into place.

I feel the wheel replacement was a good move and improved electrical pickup.
Hope this helps,

Jim

[tehachapifan]

Ok, thanks for the info and tips, Jim! And, yes, I did already know the truck removal trick on these units.

[tehachapifan]

Update: I swapped-out the stock wheels for Kato ones. First thing I noticed was how much lower the unit sits (those LL wheels are huge!). I did also notice how loosely the Kato axles (sometimes) fit in the sleeve as mentioned above. I say sometimes because a few of them seemed to fit pretty snug. I didn't have much luck using ACC to tighten them up, presumably because the axle sleeves appear to be Delrin and the axles being a glossy metal, but perhaps there was some residual oil interfering as well. I also noticed a fairly significant reduction in traction with these wheels. They appear to be way more slippery and the loco pulls 3 cars now instead of 5+ (this is largely attributed to my branchline having some pretty steep grade sections and sharp curves). While some increased slip is probably to be expected with the high-gloss Kato wheels, I thought perhaps the wheels were spinning in the axle sleeves under load but I can see the wheels spinning on the track. I guess those brassy LL wheels really gripped! Maybe the Kato wheels will gain a little more grip over time after some use.

Also, as an experiment, I plopped an Atlas wheelset (geared axle and all) in another LL truck and it seems like it might actually work too. Rolling the truck back and forth by hand, the gears seem to mesh and there doesn't appear to be any resistance or snags. However, the gear is more offset on the Atlas axle than on the LL axle, causing gears to not completely line up like before. I also tried this with the whole Kato wheelset but the axle gear is narrower than the Atlas one and this offset appears like it may be too great. This offset gear on the Atlas axle also sits really close to (if it's not actually touching) one side of the gear openings in the bottom of the sideframe casting. I suppose a little bit of the opening edge could possibly be widened if it is indeed touching and causes problems. What I haven't tried yet is if a Kato wheel will fit in the Atlas axle sleeve and if it would be any tighter (keeping the Atlas wheels is an option too, but the original goal was to go with Kato wheels). I also haven't tried the Atlas axle under power yet. Jim, did you play around with this option as well?

[Steveruger45]

Hey Russ,

What about trying an atlas truck assembly complete instead of the LL ones?
Not sure on this loco if that is possible, gear ratios , number of teeth on the bull gear, the one which meshes with the worm, etc.
I know atlas GP trucks fit the LL GP locos.
If that works then substitute for Kato wheel sets would probably work like similar Atlas trucks on other locos,

Just an idea to consider.

[tehachapifan]

That's certainly an interesting thought and one I had not considered. That said, isn't the axle spacing in a LL switcher much shorter than anything Atlas has (except for maybe the S2)?