Briggs Models MLW RS-3 Build Thread

[carlso]

Tim, Totally awesome work. I especially like the way you solved your power pickup problem. You mentioned very flexible wire soldered to the truck tabs. Would that be similar to the new Atlas offerings? So, next question is what kind or brand of wire did you use? I would want to try the wires wedged between frame halves.

Regards,
Carl

[jdcolombo]

Hi John:

Oh yes, they will get sound, following your RS-3 tutorial.  I have already made the lower speaker enclosures as per your instructions, and the LokSound decoders are waiting at Dave's for installation.  I am looking forward to adding some 244-powered engines to the roster!  Dave is a little worried about hte installations but I told him if John can do it . . . . .   

Tim

Hi Tim.

You might not want to hear this , but multiple sources are reporting that the new LokSound V.5 Micro decoder is only 10mm wide, instead of the 10.6 of the LokSound Select.  I don't know if your shells have an inside dimension that is at least 10.6mm so that the current Select decoders can fit without thinning the inside of the shell.  If so, no problem.  If not, you might want to wait for the V5 wired decoder (and for confirmation that it really is only 10mm wide).   The new V5 decoder will be able to use current V4 files, and Matt Hermann is converting all the Select files over to V4 and V5 formats so that everything will be useable in the new decoders (the wired Select Micro decoder is now discontinued - from now on, it's just the V5).

The new V5 is also a bit shorter than the Select Micro: 21mm for the V5 vs. 25mm for the Select Micro.  That extra 4mm would allow a second keep-alive cap to be wired in (behind the decoder), which would be worth it, although one seems to do a pretty good job of avoiding sound dropouts on my RS3's as long as you have reasonably clean track, powered frogs and reasonably clean wheels.  Still - two is better.

John C.

[peteski]

Hi Tim.

You might not want to hear this , but multiple sources are reporting that the new LokSound V.5 Micro decoder is only 10mm wide, instead of the 10.6 of the LokSound Select.  . . .   If not, you might want to wait for the V5 wired decoder (and for confirmation that it really is only 10mm wide). 

By "wired" do you mean "uses a Next18 plug/socket with a wire dongle adapter"?

[BCR 570]

Tim, Totally awesome work. I especially like the way you solved your power pickup problem. You mentioned very flexible wire soldered to the truck tabs. Would that be similar to the new Atlas offerings? So, next question is what kind or brand of wire did you use? I would want to try the wires wedged between frame halves.

Regards,
Carl

Thank you Carl.  Yes, Atlas has now switched to a similar method, although they have opted to run the wires into the chassis via holes in the sides just above the trucks.  I was looking for a solution which would allow the trucks to be easily removable for cleaning, and running them up to tabs between the frame halves does exactly that.  I wish to investigate the refinement proposed earlier in this thread whereby the wires are soldered to either side of a PC board rather than styrene, but for now this is working really well.

The best source for small super flexible wire is Tim Anderson at Ngineering.  It comes in #29 (0.032" O.D. with 51 strands) or #32 (0.023" O.D. with 44 strands) size.  It is well suited for power pick-ups on locomotives or rolling stock.  See https://www.ngineering.com/accessories.htm - third item down.  Tell Tim I sent you 

I will be repeating this process for my RS-18s, some of which will also carry the narrower fuel tank.


Tim

[BCR 570]

Hi Tim.

You might not want to hear this , but multiple sources are reporting that the new LokSound V.5 Micro decoder is only 10mm wide, instead of the 10.6 of the LokSound Select.  I don't know if your shells have an inside dimension that is at least 10.6mm so that the current Select decoders can fit without thinning the inside of the shell.  If so, no problem.  If not, you might want to wait for the V5 wired decoder (and for confirmation that it really is only 10mm wide).   The new V5 decoder will be able to use current V4 files, and Matt Hermann is converting all the Select files over to V4 and V5 formats so that everything will be useable in the new decoders (the wired Select Micro decoder is now discontinued - from now on, it's just the V5).

The new V5 is also a bit shorter than the Select Micro: 21mm for the V5 vs. 25mm for the Select Micro.  That extra 4mm would allow a second keep-alive cap to be wired in (behind the decoder), which would be worth it, although one seems to do a pretty good job of avoiding sound dropouts on my RS3's as long as you have reasonably clean track, powered frogs and reasonably clean wheels.  Still - two is better.

John C.

Actually I did want to hear this as I have been wondering about the new decoders, so thank you for the update.  The beauty of the ESU system is that the decoders I have received for these units can easily be re-purposed for other units with more room inside simply by changing the sound file.  If the new decoders will be available soon and are better suited for installation in the RS-3s, I can wait a bit as there are three other locomotives ahead of these in the cue for installation.

I definitely want the second cap.  My first five locomotives are all running with one cap at 220u and they do tend to stall and spit a bit when the track is not as clean as it should be.  After that we switched to two caps for a total of 440u and there is a definite improvement in performance.  I have now begun the process of upgrading the older units with two of the M-630s now back with Dave for installation of a second cap and other refinements based on experience since then.

Now it is just a question of when the new decoders will show up.

Thanks again,

Tim

[jdcolombo]

By "wired" do you mean "uses a Next18 plug/socket with a wire dongle adapter"?

Hi Pete.

I'm assuming that's what it will be, but until I get one in my hands, I don't really know for sure.  The SBS4DCC web site just lists the V5 micro DCC-only, ESU #58820, with 8-pin wired plug.  The photo is of a board with a Next18 socket at the end, but that looks like a stock photo that Bryan has used for all the V5 decoders.  He also lists the dimensions at 3.8mm thick, which is the same thickness as the old Select/V4 micro and that's the same thickness that's listed for all the V5 micro versions.  The question that remains is whether, if there's a Next18 adapter cable, what the final thickness is going to be.  The photo appears to place the Next18 socket on one end of the board which is free of other components, so maybe even if there is an adapter plug, the overall thickness won't be more than 3.8mm (e.g., the limiting factor for the thickness isn't the Next18 plug/socket, but components on the other end).  How thin can one make a plug for the Next18 socket?

If the V5 is appreciably thicker than the Select/V4, that could be an issue for installation in an RS3 chassis.  I think the RS3 installation could absorb 5mm of total thickness, but that would be about all, and that thickness would have to be at one end or the other (not both ends).  Until I can get my hands on one and do some actual measurements, though, I don't really know how the "wired" V5 will stack up thickness-wise to the V4/Select.

John C.

[jdcolombo]

Now it is just a question of when the new decoders will show up.

Thanks again,

Tim

Word is that the decoders have been shipped from Germany, and are arriving in Pennsylvania for re-shipment to dealers.  But I haven't seen one in inventory at retailers yet here in the U.S.

And - see my response above to Peteski regarding the thickness issue.  This could be a problem.

John C.

[carlso]

Thanks Tim for taking the time to respond. I have purchased from Tim several times and will check this out.

Thanks,
Carl

[peteski]

Thanks for the info John - looks like we'll have to wait and see how ESU will handle the wired decoders.

[BCR 570]

After some time spent with a few minor tasks including filing off the bumps on the chassis, re-installing a loose coupler, and bending a second batch of MU hoses, it was time to assemble the major components and see what we have.  With some adjustments yet to be made, this was just a loose trial fit for photographs:






I have to come up with a way to secure the end handrails after losing the deck mounting pins, and the contact springs are interfering with the decks sitting properly so they likely have to be removed and bent down.  (I am awfully tempted to convert the other two to wire pick-up . . .)  The MU hoses and drop steps will be added after painting:






So these engines are now essentially ready for the next trip to the paint shop in early April.


Tim

[philippe.whyte]

Outstanding Tim!  I can't wait to see (and hear!) these working the yards on the Dawson Creek Sub.

Interesting discussion regarding the V5 Loksound Micro decoder.  I'm keen to see how that will work out for us all.

Philippe

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Is Jeff using the Anycubic? How tough is the material compared to resin? Looking forward to me GP40-2LW.

[BCR 570]

Hi Daniel:

Not sure on the printers; can ask next time we meet.  These models are printed in resin which is tougher than the casting resin; probably closer to injection molded plastic in terms of density.

Tim

[BCR 570]

Is Jeff using the Anycubic? How tough is the material compared to resin? Looking forward to me GP40-2LW.

Daniel:

I met up with Jeff this weekend and put your question to him.  While he is not using the printer you mention yet, it will likely be his next purchase as his business now requires additional printing capacity.  He is also experimenting with different resins to achieve consistency in results.

Tim

[BCR 570]

Just prior to painting, yet another difference between my prototype RS-3s and the Atlas models became evident.  In studying my prototype reference photographs, he noticed that for the rear side handrails, there are two stanchions on the battery boxes and one on the deck.  The Atlas model has one stanchion on the battery boxes and two on the deck  .    A review of photographs online indicate that this was not an ALCO vs. MLW difference; I am seeing many U.S. built and owned RS-3s with the same arrangement.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1171649

Fortunately, Jeff was able to print replacement rear side handrails with stanchions and resolve the discrepancy, so my models now incorporate another small but noticeable deign difference.  The bells were also adjusted and reprinted for a more prototypical appearance.  The three engines are now out of the paint shop; photos soon.


Tim