BLI F3 and F7

[NorsemanJack]

The Volvo trucks and container trailers, and the large forklifts are couple of items that come to mind.  The paint and assembly are not up to Katos usual standards.

Thanks.  So, no actual engines, rolling stock or track.  That makes sense.  I would rather see Kato devote their manufacturing capacity to the important stuff.

[peteski]

Thanks.  So, no actual engines, rolling stock or track.  That makes sense.  I would rather see Kato devote their manufacturing capacity to the important stuff.

That's correct - the locos, rolling stock, and track still appear to be made in Japan.

[Cajonpassfan]

How about something completely different and we talk about the BLI F3 and F7's?

I got the defective AB F3 set replaced at no cost, with free shipping both ways (thanks Trainworld) and I must admit I'm warming up to these. The backwards/inverted screens still bug me to no end, but otherwise my AbbA set performs flawlessly at this point. The units are very smooth and quiet (with sound off, you can barely hear them). The paint, freestanding detail, and lighting effects are truly excellent. I removed the dummy B unit weights (two screws) to reduce drag and they track fine without them. While not great pullers, the AbbA set walks away with a 12-car Kato Superchief, and handles it competently up my 2.2% grades. (To pull my mostly brass Chief, I would probably need another powered B, unless I can figure out how to put more weight in the powered A's).

They come factory LOUD. YMMV, but I set Master Volume (CV 133) at 30, kind of low. But one of the neat things about the Paragon3 decoder is that the "double 8" command actually increases the volume from the baseline set by CV 133 (this is not in the manual, just the opposite). This allows readily more volume at startup, if desired, or low volume as default (which happens every time the engine stumbles, and it does that a lot on unpowered frogs etc. I think the fix for this, other than super clean track and powered frogs, is to wire additional pickup from the dummy B's; they have the brass sideframe insets, it's a matter of running connections to the A unit. Tbc...

While I'm at it, I also modified CV5 (Vmax) to 50 (50mph, appropriate for my layout), and CV6 (Vmid) to 30, and set CV3 (acceleration) and CV4 (deceleration) to 30. Again YMMV, but this works for me.

I do like the Paragon3 features, both sound and lighting. The Mars light is excellent, and the headlight dims when stopped. Number boards are lit independently of headlight.

So overall, I think these are quite good. In an ideal world, BLI would reissue corrected shells, but I'm not holding my breath...
OttoK.

[Espeeman]

Shims.  See my issues way back in this meandering thread.    Yes, shims worked for me.  But I think the main issue I had was a front gear tower that was not meshing with the worm properly.  That happened to be coincidentally fixed at the same time I cut some shims, since I had to pull the trucks and reseat them.  Fix _two_ things, which was the cause of the "jackhammer" sound I had with my very first run of an F7 set? 

Stepping through all the minutia on this thread and getting to real solutions I'm glad to see your post. I am having similar issues with the jackhammering and am interested in knowing how you shimmed the front gear tower.

Thanks!

[Maletrain]

Espeeman,

I am not (yet?) having the "jackhammering" issue.  So, I am wondering if that is something that happens right out of the box, or whether it is somehow induced during use, perhaps by overloading the loco(s) with too many cars, too tight curves or whatever.

Do you have any insights to share on that?

[Espeeman]

Espeeman,

I am not (yet?) having the "jackhammering" issue.  So, I am wondering if that is something that happens right out of the box, or whether it is somehow induced during use, perhaps by overloading the loco(s) with too many cars, too tight curves or whatever.

Do you have any insights to share on that?

I'm running it on a minimum 12.5" radius curves pulling no more than ten cars. Right out of the box the unit ran fine but then started showing the jackhammer problem after less than an hour runtime.

[drbnc]

I eventually figured out the jackhammer sound was caused by a loose top cover over the front gearbox, allowing the worm to disengage.  Pop-off the shell and make sure your gear towers are intact, and tighten any screws you see in there while the shell is off.

The shims were necessary to keep the idler gears centered in the truck.  The gear faces are so narrow, and the gear shoulders allow too much slop) that any misalignment cause them to disengage.  Noticed this mainly on the front truck on a 2% grade, since the "pull" load is mostly transferred to the rear truck.

Also, insure that the silver idler gear shafts are in-place on the trucks.  Those shafts can wander, also allowing for gear mesh issues.

[peteski]

The shims were necessary to keep the idler gears centered in the truck.  The gear faces are so narrow, and the gear shoulders allow too much slop) that any misalignment cause them to disengage.  Noticed this mainly on the front truck on a 2% grade, since the "pull" load is mostly transferred to the rear truck.

Also, insure that the silver idler gear shafts are in-place on the trucks.  Those shafts can wander, also allowing for gear mesh issues.

And how much did you pay for this newly-designed ready-to-run model you had to re-engineer to get it to work correctly? 
Mind you that I actually like to tinker with my models, but most modelers would certainly prefer that their models were well designed and assembled right at the factory.  The thin gears and loose shafts were mentioned here earlier, and also mentioned in Spookshow's review of this model:  http://spookshow.net/loco/blif3f7.html Good news is that you were able to modify your model to make it usable on your layout.

[Espeeman]

I eventually figured out the jackhammer sound was caused by a loose top cover over the front gearbox, allowing the worm to disengage.  Pop-off the shell and make sure your gear towers are intact, and tighten any screws you see in there while the shell is off.

The shims were necessary to keep the idler gears centered in the truck.  The gear faces are so narrow, and the gear shoulders allow too much slop) that any misalignment cause them to disengage.  Noticed this mainly on the front truck on a 2% grade, since the "pull" load is mostly transferred to the rear truck.

Also, insure that the silver idler gear shafts are in-place on the trucks.  Those shafts can wander, also allowing for gear mesh issues.

Thank you for this information! I will have a look at it this afternoon and hopefully it will solve the problem

[Cajonpassfan]

I eventually figured out the jackhammer sound was caused by a loose top cover over the front gearbox, allowing the worm to disengage.  Pop-off the shell and make sure your gear towers are intact, and tighten any screws you see in there while the shell is off.

The shims were necessary to keep the idler gears centered in the truck.  The gear faces are so narrow, and the gear shoulders allow too much slop) that any misalignment cause them to disengage.  Noticed this mainly on the front truck on a 2% grade, since the "pull" load is mostly transferred to the rear truck.

Also, insure that the silver idler gear shafts are in-place on the trucks.  Those shafts can wander, also allowing for gear mesh issues.

Thanks for the info, appreciated!
The shims seem like a good and simple solution (and might also help prevent the warm gear skip by staying centered). But I don't understand your comment about the "top cover"; I don't see any, see pics. Could you please clarify?
Thanks again,
Otto K.

[peteski]

Thanks for the info, appreciated!
The shims seem like a good and simple solution (and might also help prevent the warm gear skip by staying centered). But I don't understand your comment about the "top cover"; I don't see any, see pics. Could you please clarify?
Thanks again,
Otto K.

You photos show the bottom of the chassis.  The worm and its bearings are installed from the top. I believe what he means is the cover that holds the worm bearings down on the topside of the chassis. A photo  in Spookshow's review of this model shows those covers.



If that cover is loose, the worm and its bearings will be able to raise up in the chassis, disengaging the worm gear.

[drbnc]

Yup, covers are on the topside. 

As far as issues earlier in the thread, I was right in there.  Unfortunately, I was an "early adopter" (page 2).

[Espeeman]

I wanted to update my findings with the jack-hammer front truck (F7A) in case someone else is having the same issue. I looked into all the suggestions offered and what finally worked was a simple solution someone here had mentioned. I switched the front and rear truck. The noise was coming from the binding of the gears in the front truck. Once I swapped them out, the noise stopped. Now it runs perfectly.

[peteski]

I wanted to update my findings with the jack-hammer front truck (F7A) in case someone else is having the same issue. I looked into all the suggestions offered and what finally worked was a simple solution someone here had mentioned. I switched the front and rear truck. The noise was coming from the binding of the gears in the front truck. Once I swapped them out, the noise stopped. Now it runs perfectly.

I'm not sure I understand this.  You mentioned that the front truck had binding gears and was the source of that noise.  You say that you then swapped the front and rear truck and the problem was solved.  Aren't front and rear trucks identical? Wouldn't that just have moved the noisy truck to the rear where it would still be noisy?

[Espeeman]

I'm not sure I understand this.  You mentioned that the front truck had binding gears and was the source of that noise.  You say that you then swapped the front and rear truck and the problem was solved.  Aren't front and rear trucks identical? Wouldn't that just have moved the noisy truck to the rear where it would still be noisy?

By putting the front truck in the rear position you are turning it backwards. The gear binding only happened when it ran forward. I have not run the loco backwards pulling a train (it only bound when it had a load on it) but in switching operations with only a few cars it has not bound.