BLI F3 and F7

[peteski]

The "fuss" about the F-7s is just that they may not continue to run fine, given the loose gear axles and Spookshow's experience when running them for a while.  The rest of the "fuss" is mostly cosmetic, and largely about the backwards grills on the F-3s.

I thought that the squinty windshields, and what appears to be wrong vertical body proportions were also part of the fuss.

Mind you @ntrainman , that none of these discrepancies are important to an average model railroader, but the elite Railwire nitpickers noticed that the model is not perfect.  That usually start a lengthy thread about the missed opportunities of the manufacturer to design an accurate model. After all, this is an online forum where we can discuss things like this.

[Nato]

                   Brought my UP F-3's to the NSE show yesterday. They had not been run on DCC only brief operation of all powered locomotives singly one at a time on my wireless DC layout. The Wasatch N Scale layout is NCE system. We had no problem consisting the two powered A Units, but it took awhile for the B Unit to receive the consisting information. When it did then all three worked fine. Ran then on and off for many hours today pulling a 14 car passenger train of mixed manufactures. The diesel sound to me who grew up in the 50's 60's and heard them a lot is slightly off. Running three sound equipped powered locomotives is very noisy as I haven't had a chance to study (read) the CV's to turn the volume down. The squinty windshields are ok, but the clearly inverted side grills does look odd to me. On a one to ten scale I would give mine about a nine point eight or nine. Other members who have purchased them and are having the glitches covered in the last part of this thread my feel free to disagree with my rating. Nate Goodman (Nato).   

[Cajonpassfan]

.........The rest of the "fuss" is mostly cosmetic, and largely about the backwards grills on the F-3s.

The A unit grilles are not just backwards, but have certain body solid sheet metal and openings inverted, on both A and B units. This puts a hole where the structural truss gussets are supposed to be. This may not bother everyone, but it sure bothers the heck out of me, especially on a $500 ABBA set.

BTW, there are two separate threads on this, the other in "product discussion".
Otto K.

[thomasjmdavis]

I thought that the squinty windshields, and what appears to be wrong vertical body proportions were also part of the fuss.

Mind you @ntrainman , that none of these discrepancies are important to an average model railroader, but the elite Railwire nitpickers noticed that the model is not perfect.  That usually start a lengthy thread about the missed opportunities of the manufacturer to design an accurate model. After all, this is an online forum where we can discuss things like this.

How many "average model railroaders" drop $250 on an F unit?  I imagine the average model railroader chooses between a Kato F unit and a Bachmann F unit.  I figured I had made real progress in the hobby when I moved on to choosing between Kato and IM F units.

[randgust]

Hey, I thought I'd made real progress when I retired an ABBA set of Trix and got Kato!   

I've got an Intermountain, like it just fine, but I'm still undetermined if I want to take a finished and weathered unit and try to lower it.  So far I don't think it's worth the fight.

NO interest in a BLI, frankly, struggling with their PA1 turned me off big-time that unless I'd test-run one on my own layout I'd pass.

[peteski]

How many "average model railroaders" drop $250 on an F unit?  I imagine the average model railroader chooses between a Kato F unit and a Bachmann F unit.  I figured I had made real progress in the hobby when I moved on to choosing between Kato and IM F units.

The street price for a DCC/sound Equipped F-units is $175.  That it actually quite reasonable for this type of a model. How many average model railroaders?  Probably quite a few who desire F-units with factory-installed DCC/sound.

I'm not defending the BLI - just being realistic (and also jaded by all the missteps I see manufacturers making when producing brand new models in the 2nd decade of the 21st Century). Still, even with all the warts and boils, those models sell quite well.  I would prefer seeing newly-designed models having more correct ride height, properly placed grilles, properly scaled windshields, and not grossly exaggerated body panels, door lines or clapboard gaps.  But many manufacturers seem to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. 

[mmagliaro]

The street price for a DCC/sound Equipped F-units is $175.  That it actually quite reasonable for this type of a model. How many average model railroaders?  Probably quite a few who desire F-units with factory-installed DCC/sound.

I'm not defending the BLI - just being realistic (and also jaded by all the missteps I see manufacturers making when producing brand new models in the 2nd decade of the 21st Century). Still, even with all the warts and boils, those models sell quite well.  I would prefer seeing newly-designed models having more correct ride height, properly placed grilles, properly scaled windshields, and not grossly exaggerated body panels, door lines or clapboard gaps.  But many manufacturers seem to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. 

Because, sadly, that ain't where the money is.  I think Bachmann has figured that out too.  Forget improving the engineering.  Slap in a sound decoder that cost them 10 bucks, jack up the price by $100, and woo-hoo, the money pours in.

Need I remind us all of the sound equipped mooing stock car.

[atsf3751]

Need I remind us all of the sound equipped mooing stock car.

Don't forget the sound equipped water tank.

[peteski]

Because, sadly, that ain't where the money is.  I think Bachmann has figured that out too.  Forget improving the engineering.  Slap in a sound decoder that cost them 10 bucks, jack up the price by $100, and woo-hoo, the money pours in.

Need I remind us all of the sound equipped mooing stock car.

But the problem I see here is that they are not just taking dsome crude or inaccurate shells (or entire models and slapping that $10 decoder to jack up the price.   What *REALLY* bugs me (actually it is disappointing me) is that these are brand new models designed in the second decade of the 21sr Century.  Manufacturers.designers have now access to more research material than ever before. Between the Internet, helpful "expert" modelers, and historical societies, they have more than enough information at their disposal to produce an accurate model. But they can't figure  out how to stop making mistakes or exaggerate details which really do not need to be drastically exaggerated to remain visible on a small model.  I'm not really talking about some small mistakes, but major glaring major !

Companies (or really their designers and mold makers) like Micro Trains and Kato for example have figured out how not to exaggerate details like door lines or board gaps. That, along with very thin layer of paint makes for a model which just looks right. But many other companies keep on dramatically exaggerate these features, then slap a thick layer of paint. Even with the thick paint, those details still look exaggerated and the model ends up looking like a toy which has been dipped in a thick paint.

[Point353]

Manufacturers.designers have now access to more research material than ever before. Between the Internet, helpful "expert" modelers, and historical societies, they have more than enough information at their disposal to produce an accurate model.

Inquire with some of the historical societies as to how often they (don't) get asked by a manufacturer to provide information relevant to an upcoming model.
That being said, some historical societies seem to be more proactive than others.
I've heard comments, after an inaccurate model was released, to the effect that "we're here, but they never asked us."

[peteski]

Inquire with some of the historical societies as to how often they (don't) get asked by a manufacturer to provide information relevant to an upcoming model.
That being said, some historical societies seem to be more proactive than others.
I've heard comments, after an inaccurate model was released, to the effect that "we're here, but they never asked us."

Like I said, the info is out there, but the resources, for some reasons are not utilized by the designers.

[Maletrain]

Part of the problem may well be that the model tooling is being made on the other side of the globe by people who have never seen the prototypes, don't speak the same language as the people who have seen the prototypes, and are not all that eager to do things differently for a small market that keeps buying their stuff, anyway.

[peteski]

Part of the problem may well be that the model tooling is being made on the other side of the globe by people who have never seen the prototypes, don't speak the same language as the people who have seen the prototypes, and are not all that eager to do things differently for a small market that keeps buying their stuff, anyway.

While I agree with you, there is an exception: Kato.  While the fact that the designers are literally a world away from the prototypes, I think that there is also something else in play.  It is their quality of design.  It seems that Japanese designers/engineers are more fastidious, and have better design ideas that their Chinese counterparts.  I see that every time I compare a Chinese-made to a Japanese-made model.  The difference is obvious.  Even very basic parts (like the electric pickup strips) are better made in Japanese models. And it is not just the design quality, but the assembly and finish too.  Even those few items Kato had outsourced to China lack their typical quality.  Here - I said it!

I mentioned the electric pickup strips comparison.  How can I distinguish between them?  The Kato (Japanese-made) strips have smooth edges all around, while the Chinese-made ones have at least one rough edge with slightly curled up metal (as if they were cut on a dull shear).  It is not just few models, most of them are like that.  One can tell where it was made.  Operationally it makes no difference, but even this simple part shows that there is a difference in quality.  But most modelers will not notice or care.

[NorsemanJack]

Even those few items Kato had outsourced to China lack their typical quality.  Here - I said it!

Which items were those?

[peteski]

Which items were those?

The Volvo trucks and container trailers, and the large forklifts are couple of items that come to mind.  The paint and assembly are not up to Katos usual standards.