BLI F3 and F7

[spookshow]

Nope, still doing it. Man, I am flummoxed 

-Mark

[spookshow]

OK, I cleaned the wheels and wipers again and then spent 20 minutes cleaning my track three different ways (bright boy, cloth + alcohol, track cleaning car + track cleaning fluid) and so far so good. Talk about finicky.

-Mark

[learmoia]

Mark, are you running them on DCC at a constant speed step, with no adjustment to the throttle?.. then they shut down?..

Try to run them adjusting the throttle up/down 1 or 2 steps every 15 seconds and see if they still shut down..

If they DO then it's an electrical/dirt issue.
If they DO NOT shut down, Set CV 11 packet timeout to 0 (off) ..or 256 (max)

Then retry your tests.

~Ian

[Maletrain]

Maybe a false alarm here - I did some extensive wheel cleaning on the E6's and it seems like maybe they're OK again. Didn't help with the F's, though. I tried cleaning everything on those (repeatedly).
-Mark

Or, maybe the decoders cooled-down while you were doing the wheel cleaning.  Can you run them the same way for the same amount of time without needing to clean wheels, again?

[mmagliaro]

I've been following this for a while with some interest (even though I don't need any F units).

I know what I'm about to suggest is a tall order, but the way to really start with this mystery is to bypass the decoder and run the engine on straight DC.  Right now, it's hard to tell if the wonky behavior is being caused by very intermittent pickup, the decoder itself, or the DCC booster.  If you start with it hard-wired to DC on a power pack and run it for a few days with no problems, that eliminates the motor, wiring, trucks, and all the pickup issues.  I think it is crucial to know if those parts are working, or this will be a tail-chasing exercise.

[spookshow]

Well, that didn't last very long - they're both misbehaving again. I'll try some of these suggestions (except that I probably won't be bypassing the decoder since I want to retain the option of returning them).

-Mark

[Ed Kapuscinski]

But... am I to understand that the Es were running for 7+ hours straight?

Is that within the design parameters? I mean, how many of us will be running these things for 7 hours without a stop.

Maybe the slowdown was to simulate the crew going "dead on the law"? That'd be some fancy *****.

[spookshow]

Well, I hope it's within the design parameters. I don't often run locos that long, but sometimes I do let them run in the background for several hours while I'm puttering around in the workshop. In this case it was just a test to make sure that they could handle that.

Anyway, I could barely get them running this time, so I went back and cleaned the track again. That seems to have made them happy for now, but I'm not sure I want to be cleaning my track every hour on the hour. I wonder if the traction tires are leaking rubber or something.

-Mark

[Maletrain]

But... am I to understand that the Es were running for 7+ hours straight?

Is that within the design parameters? I mean, how many of us will be running these things for 7 hours without a stop.

Maybe the slowdown was to simulate the crew going "dead on the law"? That'd be some fancy *****.

I can understand people running trains for 7 hours at shows or clubs during open house events. Really, unless something is running near its limits, that should not make much difference in performance for a decently designed mechanical and electrical system. I would think they would be more reliable in that mode than when getting called out of staging once per month for a club op session.

[Chris333]

You said they got very hot. Wonder if the length of run time means they are even hotter?

[Point353]

But... am I to understand that the Es were running for 7+ hours straight?
Is that within the design parameters? I mean, how many of us will be running these things for 7 hours without a stop.

On an NTRAK (or T-TRAK) layout at a train show.

[peteski]

Many people run their trains for hours at a time (yes, usually at train shows on modular layouts).

If a loco gradually slows down in DCC, then speeds back up, then to blame the command station (DCC system)  would mean that it sent, spontaneously on its own, gradually decreasing then increasing speed step packets to that loco's address. I don't see that being the case.

But if the loco is running hot then I can see the decoder having a built-in over-temperature protection which will shut down the decoder until it cools down.

Also if there is certain type of intermittent conductivity problem with the track, that can possibly "fool" the decoder into behaving strangely. So dirty wheels, track or bad contact elsewhere in the model coudl cause strange behavior.

I'm leaning towards thermal shutdown.  Try running the model with the shell off (for better cooling) and see how it behaves.  You can also try to artificially cool the decoder, and see how it behaves when cooled.

In electronic troubleshooting we use "freeze spray" which is an aerosol can with liquefied gas which then is sprayed out at very low temperature. It a similar gas to what it in the "dust-off" aerosol cans with "compressed air".  It isn't really air.  Instructions on those tell you not to spray upside down. That is becuase if sprayed upside down, the liquefied gas will come out and freeze things instantly.  But for this purpose, use the dust-off spray upside down to spray the decoder with the freezing spray. Just be careful not to to spray yourself.

[atsf3751]

But... am I to understand that the Es were running for 7+ hours straight?

Is that within the design parameters? I mean, how many of us will be running these things for 7 hours without a stop.

Maybe the slowdown was to simulate the crew going "dead on the law"? That'd be some fancy *****.

Actually, at my club that is not uncommon. We are open to the public six days a week, 10am-5pm, on weekends 11-5. When I come down to run, I will frequently leave trains running nonstop the whole time.

[cgw]

So far I can duplicate the same problem with 10 BL locos on three different brands of DCC command stations.  Lenz commander (Early Atlas unit) , Digitrax DCS51 along with an ancient  DB 150, and  NCE power cab.      Voltage out was measured with an scope and was around 12.3 volts.  I did not measure the current draw while running.      The Digitrax  DB100, a newer db150 and the newest DCS 240 unit did not appear to have problems (max run time of 4 hours on a circular track).     All the command stations work ok with ESU, Digitrax, Soundtrax and Zimo sound decoders but not with the paragon 3 units.       The locos will initially run OK  (~15  to 20 seconds) slow down ( ~5 seconds), stop  light dim then and then speed up (~10 seconds) and the cycle repeats. The behaviors look like a capacitors on the decoder charging and then discharging.  It is not the track or the wheels.   I can duplicate the same behavior in an engine test stand where I bypass the wheel/track pickup.   so I doubt it is in the track or wheels/pickup...... 


Houston  we have a problem with the decoder.................      or was it Ormund Beach we have a problem.

[spookshow]

At least part of my problem has for sure been dirty track (I tried a few non-BLI locos to verify). But I can't seem to get more than an hour or two out of the BLI's before they start misbehaving again, so I think I'm just going to return them. I'm used to having to baby BLI's, but this is above and beyond the call of duty.

-Mark