BLI F3 and F7

[spookshow]

FYI, I was going to go with a D (or maybe even a C) on these until I started having all the hiccup/slow down/speed up problems. That was really the last straw for me, and the F represents all the frustration that went into spending the better part of 3 days trying to get the things to run properly.

I'm always rooting for models to be good, and do try to give them every chance to do just that. But at some point you just get pissed off and go the other way, lol.

-Mark

[rrjim1]

The truck gearing looks to be about the same as early Kato trucks used on the GP38, GP50 and early Atlas locos.

[cbroughton67]

I passed on these as well, and glad I did after seeing the review. With Intermountain having F's with ESU sound queued for production, I'm holding-out for those. They have a tried & true mechanism, a great sound decoder, and I can easily buy a powered A-A or A-B-A consist without dealing with a dummy B-unit that I don't want.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Seems like Spookshow is being a bit harsh, considering that the F grade usually goes to 1980s trainset junk.  But I guess it's partly relatively to the industry standards at the time something is released.

I agree, the only thing I think is a major issue are the gear things because that directly affects the ability of the things to actually RUN.

Has anyone talked to BLI about that issue?

[kverdon]

Thank you so much for posting this review!!!!! I just got off the phone, cancelling my order with MB Klein's for a GN set. After the Challenger fiasco I had, I did not want to go down the rabbit hole again with these. I have 2 other E units that are fine from BLI so I thought I would be safe. I guess this just reinforces the need to wait for review before purchase. Of course, this is setting up a catch-22. More manufacturers are requiring guaranteed pre-orders before they produce an item but with the recent junk that is getting delivered, how will people trust the manufactures to pre-order?

Thanks,

Kevin

[spookshow]

I agree, the only thing I think is a major issue are the gear things because that directly affects the ability of the things to actually RUN.

Has anyone talked to BLI about that issue?

If it was just a mediocre puller, I would've given it a "C". Add in the gearbox issues and that drops it down to a "D". The inexplicable and seemingly unfixable stutters and other running issues that showed up on day 3 (after about 20 hours of running time) ultimately made it an F for me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just not runnable at all.

I contacted BLI last Thursday about the dead decoder but they haven't replied so far.

-Mark

[randgust]

It's just sad.  Somebody spent days/weeks developing all the sound, probably the lead electrical guy.
But the newbie in the design team got the trucks.   Yeah, that part is easy, give it to him.   And the gear shaft pins can spin out.   Yeah, if you're into surgery you can probably fix that by tearing apart the trucks and securing those with Loctite.

I simply expect an N locomotive to run quietly, reliably, not stall, overheat, and oh yeah, pull cars.  Anything else I can get without compromising those is nice, but not if it compromises those basics.  Get too involved with the whiz-bang add-ons at your own peril. 

When I think of the hours and hours I spent tinkering just with the drive and pickup system on the TP56 to get it right... and Ron managed to get his working with DCC, yeah.   It's not always easy in this scale, but physics remain constant for both mass, electricity, and sound.  Ain't easy.

And 2.75 ounces on an F-unit?  Seriously?  My Kato F's scale in at 4.5 and a 1982 GP38 weighs 4.6.  The tractive effort thing remains my own personal vendetta, as my layout was designed with a 2.5% ruling grade, 13" min radius,  and storage tracks that could handle 30-car trains, requiring 3 C-C units per train on a max length consist.   Back in the 80's when I designed it, three Trix U-boat's could easily handle it with power left over.  Todays' 'new' power struggles or completely fails due to light weight and slicker wheels.   I'm still puzzled how we've evolved this way in a scale that worships long, prototypically-length trains.   Decoders have gotten a lot smaller, but speaker cutouts now eat more frame weight than ever.  HO has it easy, N keeps hitting the brick walls of physics here.

I'm also dismayed at the dual-mode decoders I've seen, because when they do stall, they go through a full reset to figure out where power comes from, instead of a simple hiccup that a flywheel would compensate for.  A keep-alive won't help DC.  And if you use some of the more sophisticated transistor throttles in DC as I do, the dual-mode decoders are just clueless.   Give me a jumper spot to just bypass the entire mess, or I just end up taking it all out.  My first clue in this was how astoundingly better the Bachmann 44-tonner ran as a straight DC mechanism.  Wow.  My second horrible experience was a BLI PA-1, easier to return it.  And, the dual-mode phenomenon of a new starting voltage of around 8v with a maximum speed of 45mph at 12.   Without all that, most of my stuff runs 'track speed' at 4-5v.

I do enjoy the fun 'wow' electronics stuff, just a completely different approach.  I've had wonderful success with digital sound transfer and arduino controllers, the quality is phenomenal particularly with a bass sub-woofer build in.  Every lead locomotive has Richmond Controls constant lighting, strobes, mars lights, etc.  Every caboose has markers and constant lighting.  Entire passenger train lit with Rapido boards.  Full signal system now with scale-size tricolor LED's.   Just there's a limit to how much stuff you can do in a locomotive chassis and still pull a train. 

[Cajonpassfan]

I passed on these as well, and glad I did after seeing the review. With Intermountain having F's with ESU sound queued for production, I'm holding-out for those. They have a tried & true mechanism, a great sound decoder, and I can easily buy a powered A-A or A-B-A consist without dealing with a dummy B-unit that I don't want.

That's what I should have done. But, I have a long line of locos, including IM and Kato F units, waiting to be converted to DCC and sound for which I never seem to find time. So on impulse, I thought what a joy it would be to just buy a ready to use ABBA F3 set and run trains with it. A lot of money but so what, right? WRONG! At best I spent close to five hundred on something that will require a lot of work mechanically and has the grills backwards and the structural triangular truss gussets inverted There's no fix for that and looks stupid. And, at worst, I bought something that can't even be used if Spookshow is correct (and I have no reason to doubt him).

I have a number of BLI E's and PA's and while they have some  issues, I got them running right, and they improved with each generation. The most recent E6 set I have is a joy straight out of the box (well I did replace the TT axles with non-TT). This looks like BLI took a giant step backwards. Frustrating to say the least.
Otto K.

[Mark5]

I agree, the only thing I think is a major issue are the gear things because that directly affects the ability of the things to actually RUN.

Has anyone talked to BLI about that issue?

Massively valid point.

I don't have any stake in these (yet) but I emailed them about the truck problem in particular as they really need to be aware of this as this could potentially affect other locos in the pipeline.

Mark

[drbnc]

I also sent their Tech Support an email about the gearing, since I have pics to prove it.     Gonna keep on them till there is a resolution.  I have several of their other 6-axle releases, and they can do better.

[CodyO]

So far besides the gear issues that everyone else is having they are awesome. I used JMRI to adjust the speed table CVs and got them so they start out moving tie by tie and max out at 60 SMPH.

The shells look great and I love all the detail on them.

I noticed on mine that the worm gear climbs out of the gear tower then drops back in. I`m going to try and shim it to hold it down on the gear tower to see if it resolves the issue.

[randgust]

I noticed on mine that the worm gear climbs out of the gear tower then drops back in. I`m going to try and shim it to hold it down on the gear tower to see if it resolves the issue.

 

Yet, this appears to be the first model in N scale to include the grates UNDER the battery boxes.
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/blif3mech2.jpg
Unless you derail it and lay it on its side, no one will ever, ever see that.   If only that same effort had been made on the mechanism.

[CodyO]

Yet, this appears to be the first model in N scale to include the grates UNDER the battery boxes.
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/blif3mech2.jpg
Unless you derail it and lay it on its side, no one will ever, ever see that.   If only that same effort had been made on the mechanism.

100% agree, they spent so much time on making it look awesome but the mech and weight issues just make it a pig covered in makeup with some great pig sounds.

[Maletrain]

Wow, I just dropped a bundle on these, for the same reasons that Otto K expressed.  Mine just arrived in the mail, today.  I see that the stocks at some of the biggest e-tailers are already low or sold-out, before this news hit the street.  So, we consumers are stuck with the choice of either missing-out on great models that sell-out before they are reviewed or getting stuck with "Epic Fails" that we needed to "pre-order before they were available for review.

This is the type of problem the may kill "pre-ordering".  If we can't count on a company to keep the same standards of operability and visual quality that they have demonstrated on previous products, then we will have to wait for their new products to come onto the market and be seen and tested before we will commit large sums of money.  Apparently, a business's reputation is not worth anything to them, any more.

And if highly detailed N scale models do actually require pre-ordering to survive in the market place, then maybe it will kill  N scale at the detailed RTR model level.  Too bad the folks who produce product like this don't worry about the damage they are doing to the hobby, as well as their own businesses. 

[drbnc]

Anyone that has any mechanical issue(s) with these should use their website to email Tech Support.  The more they get tagged, the faster they will respond (if they respond).