BLI F3 and F7

[atsf3751]

Spookshow gives these new engines a grade of F (epic fail). What is your experience with them?

[nscaler711]

Link
http://www.spookshow.net/loco/blif3f7.html

Thanks for the heads up.  I'll save my money now.
 
T1 better not have any issues...

[peteski]

Most of those problems can be remedied by a mechanically-inclined modeler.
But  why manufacturers keep coming out with flawed designs such as this one?  Why don't they embrace the type of reliable low-friction (and reliable pickup) design introduced in U.S. by Kato in their U30C (and still used today, by multiple manufacturers)?  And there is no excuse for sloppy truck gearing design.  I think the Chinese engineers designing these models thing they are children's toys which don't need to be precisely designed.

[Jbub]

It seems the trucks are a big problem. I'm wondering if there was decision made by factory management/ personally to assemble the trucks without some "non essential" parts because they didn't have them yet or forgot to make it.

[randgust]

Wow, if ever I saw a review that describes why I 'keep it simple, stupid', that's it.   I've always concentrated on weight, tractive effort, solid design, simplicity.  I feel rather Luddite many days, and something like this makes me feel much better.   

There's a limit to how far you can push the 'whiz-bang' electronics if you ignore the basics of making it run and actually pull something.  The bad part is that a manufacturer will suffer, take it in the teeth, and blame the scale for poor sales.

[jagged ben]

Seems like Spookshow is being a bit harsh, considering that the F grade usually goes to 1980s trainset junk.  But I guess it's partly relatively to the industry standards at the time something is released.

Anyway, I'm glad I didn't hurry to pull the trigger on these.  Maybe I'll pick some up at a discount when they show up on FeeBay in a few years, same as I did some PAs.

[NorsemanJack]

Thanks for the info.  I've only bought Kato locos for over ten years, so not likely to consider anything like this.  That said, I won't waste my time even looking.

[altohorn25]

Too bad, I was looking forward to these......

I do, however, trust spookeshow's judgement and will refrain from purchasing these.  As stated in a previous post, the upcoming T-1's better not have these issues.....

[Chris333]

Sounded like Mark bought 2 locos. One quit working and got sent back and the other didn't run well.  I think he goes easy on the reviews mostly, so if he didn't like these, that is saying something.

[Point353]

And there is no excuse for sloppy truck gearing design.  I think the Chinese engineers designing these models thing they are children's toys which don't need to be precisely designed.

Maybe they were designed by the same team that worked on the Choo Choo Shoes.

[peteski]

Maybe they were designed by the same team that worked on the Choo Choo Shoes.

But weren't those made rather well? 

I think this is just another example of what happens when a company outsources production to another country (with another culture), half way across the world.  Not only there is a half-a-day time difference, but a language barrier too.  Lots can (and will) get lost in translation. Then there are budget limits to consider, and time deadlines.  Even with the instant communication over the Internet (no long delays with drawings sent back ind forth by snail-mail), things go wrong.

I had a privilege to watch a video made by Rapido Trains showing a production cycle of one of their models. They demonstrated several examples of what can go wrong with this type of global production method.   Some problems never get caught, or get caught too late to be fixed.  I wish there were fewer reasons for failure, fewer excuses, and fewer mistakes.  But unless the production model changes (which is unlikely), the situation will not improve.

[learmoia]

Seems like Spookshow is being a bit harsh, considering that the F grade usually goes to 1980s trainset junk.  But I guess it's partly relatively to the industry standards at the time something is released.

Yeah I read through his descriprions of each grade, these seem like these should be in the D range.  But.. The purchase of 3 or 4 of these is a large chunk of money and to have them all run like crap, poor pulling power and literally overheat and die in the first hour oUT of the box..    I'm sure F was a common letter used in the commentary during the review process.. so likely that's where it came from

[atsf3751]

There are some errors that should have been caught in the pre-production engines, such as grills being in backwards, odd looking truck design with sloppy gearing and lack of weight. Blue wire and bubblewrap taped to the top of the decoder looks like an afterthought. I am very happy with my Intermountain F3s and F7s, glad I didn't pre-order these. And they certainly did not answer the question, why another F. They do look nice in the pictures though.

[Point353]

But weren't those made rather well? 

But, maybe the skill set isn't transferable.

I had a privilege to watch a video made by Rapido Trains showing a production cycle of one of their models. They demonstrated several examples of what can go wrong with this type of global production method.   Some problems never get caught, or get caught too late to be fixed.

Did the video show whether or not any direct personnel from Rapido performed any inspections or testing as part of the production process? 
Are locos ever test run (on a track) before leaving the factory?

[peteski]

But, maybe the skill set isn't transferable.
Did the video show whether or not any direct personnel from Rapido performed any inspections or testing as part of the production process? 
Are locos ever test run (on a track) before leaving the factory?

Yes, they visited the factory few times.
The video also showed some mistakes that were caught by the Rapido team in Canada.
Yes, the assembled models were given a short run on a test track. These were H0 locos.